r/technology
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u/chrisdh79
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8d ago
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Juul's e-cigarettes could be banned from sale in the US | The FDA is set to announce the move imminently, according to The Wall Street Journal. Society
https://www.engadget.com/juul-ban-vape-pen-fda-report-183333084.html7.1k
u/mwaaahfunny
8d ago
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Somebody didn't have enough money to buy senators and congressional delegates.
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u/IHeartBadCode 8d ago •
Well mostly this comes down to JUUL not really cooperating with the FDA's investigation. NJOY was cleared by the FDA for sale in the United States. JUUL was asked to submit material back in 2020 and just noped out of doing any of that.
So JUUL has given the FDA very little choice on what to do going forward. And this ban will more than likely be a blanket ban for the product meaning JUUL will get the option to appeal the ban in court. Which might be where they want to go to argue the case for the mint/tobacco only limitation that NJOY/JUUL and other major makers must abide by, but private sales of flavors are still allowed.
To tell the truth, this feels like they want to drag the FDA into court and have the courts order the FDA to create regulation on private sales of vaping products. There's little incentive for major makers to have limitations on sales while an entire private market exists that has no such limitation on the exact same product, and that's maybe the point JUUL wants to make.
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u/The-Implication-0 8d ago
Can you explain the ‘private sales of flavored vaping products’? What does that mean compared to ‘public sales’?
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u/rzalexander 8d ago
Small businesses and the like can still sell small batch vaping liquid of different flavors.
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u/dlm2137 8d ago
Hell isn’t there also some kinda loophole for the disposable vapes? For some reason those still come in flavors but the juul pods do not.
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u/rzalexander 8d ago
Those are almost all decentralized and have no interstate sales which is why they can be flavored.
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u/oprahspinfree 8d ago
They just banned the sale of disposable flavored vapes in Portland, ME, where I’m working this summer. I’d expect to see other cities following suit, if they haven’t already.
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u/xDulmitx 8d ago
I wonder when a company will make a vape with no flavor, and a separate flavor cartridge to get around the ban.
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u/cerialthriller 7d ago
That’s what you have to do in NJ to buy vape juice since flavor is banned. You buy a flavorless mixture of vape juice, a little tube of nicotine, and a flavor packet and you have to mix it yourself. So much safer to handle raw nicotine than let you buy flavored juice at a smoke shop
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u/QueasyVictory 7d ago
So much safer to handle raw nicotine than let you buy flavored juice at a smoke shop
That's what I'm thinking. Someone is going to get seriously hurt or killed with that concentrated nicotine.
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u/Kryptosis 7d ago
Love how you can have pure Nic shipped but pods with 5% nic? No waaaaayyy…
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u/Yeetanod 7d ago
See that's the funny thing. People think smoking cigarettes is bad, and teens like vapes because it emulates smoking cigarettes but with nice flavors. So then they ban the flavors, and then teens weren't just magically no longer addicted to nicotine; so the teens bought the flavors now available which is tobacco flavor and menthol flavor. I literally called this in 2018 I told my buddy that his little brother wouldn't stop vaping just because they ban the mango pods, and his little brother currently just smokes a pack of newport menthol per day. All the vape regulations did was result in kids switching back to regular cigarettes, and make adults like me not be able to have any fruity flavored pods.
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u/Ass_cream_sandwiches 7d ago
Idk where you live, but literally every single gas station and smoke shop is stocked to the roof with Alibaba mystery Chinese company vapes with a whole rainbow of flavors.
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u/PluvioShaman 8d ago
“Please load flavor cartridge… please load flavor cartridge…please…”
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u/NoMaans 7d ago
You're out of blueberry, in order to use your mixed berry, please fill the blue berry chamber.
But I am ok with just hitting the rasp...
FILL BLUEBERRY CHAMBER
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u/HazeMoar 8d ago
NYC banned flavors a while ago. Maybe years now. I'm currently 24 days into quitting after 16 yrs of intense nicotine intake (and never going back) but I still support the right to ingest whatever I damn please. Bans will just force kids to go to the more dangerous brands with less oversight. More death. Not sure how that helps.
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u/kryts 7d ago
You can go to most bodegas here and still find flavored vape (non JUUL)At least in Queens were I am. And pick up a pre roll while you are there.
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u/Yeetanod 7d ago
You can buy a gun at a bodega... of course they will not be impacted by legal changes lmao.
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u/rufotris 7d ago
Agreed, I smoked for many years and quit a few years back, but every once in a while, like when I just traveled this last week, I will grab an e-cigarette to cope with the fact that I’m not smoking weed while I travel and I don’t use it a lot but it helps my anxiety. I’m forced to breath in shit pollution air from countless sources. Why can’t I choose to sometimes ingest something I know is bad.. we still let McDonald’s exist don’t we?…
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u/shonen-trash 7d ago
It’s fucking stupid. All the kids have switched over to flavored disposable, so the ban hasn’t done anything besides making vaping harder for adults using them to quit cigarettes.
It’s also pretty telling that the approved Njoy ecigs (which taste like shit) are backed by, you guessed it, big tobacco.
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u/dlm2137 7d ago
Not disagreeing with you but isn't Juul also backed by big tobacco?
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u/wheres-the-tylenol 7d ago
Looks like Altria, which is the parent company of Phillip Morris who produce Marlboro, has the largest percentage of shares in JUUL at 35% so yes
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u/Zachs_Butthole 8d ago
Isn't this the reason that small vape stores have popped up all over?
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u/4509347vm89037m6 7d ago
They popped up because people love drugs, dude. The ones most people have decided are okay are nicotine, alcohol, and caffeine. Even during the lockdowns, people still needed their drugs.
I vape as a means of quitting smoking, started at .12, now I'm down to .03. There's a very minimal amount of nicotine in what I smoke now, and it's mostly a placebo. Still not a great idea to aerosol vegetable oil and inhale it down my gullet, but hey it can't be worse, or more expensive than a pack of smokes a day!
Having spoken to people at my local vape shop, I'm pretty sure it's an FDA thing. You may have seen a lot of boutique and local "vape brands", smaller operations that sell things locally or regionally. These are the ones that are going to be shit on by the FDA. Vape fluid is commonly sold in 30, 60, and 120ml bottles, with nicotine contents of 0.0 to 0.24%. Each bottle sold that's 30ml, at 0.0, 0.03, 0.06, 0.12, and 0.24% nicotine would need to be approved by the FDA, and that costs mad dosh. So if you're a company that's selling 50 different flavors, you have to get each unit you sell approved. So all the percents, for each bottle you sell. There's 15 permutations per flavor (30, 60, and 120ml, and all the percentages), let's say you stop selling 30 and 60ml bottles. There's still 5 per flavor, if you have 50 that's 250 approvals you have to get. If you dial it down to five flavors and two percentages for each, you're still paying a lot of money for the FDA approval.
A big company like Vuse or Juul can eat the money for FDA approval, whereas the small beans companies can't eat that cost. All the big vape companies are owned by British American Tobacco, or Phillip Morris, or their subsidiaries. My prediction is whoever owns the most politicians will end up being the most popular vape brand in America.
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u/Barbarake 7d ago
People don't realize exactly how much money they're talking about to try and get FDA approval.
Firstly, the FDA does not directly charge anything for you to apply. But they require all sorts of evidence-based studies which cost A LOT of money. The FDA itself estimated it would cost between $170,000 - (something like) $350,000 per application. That has proven to be completely wrong, companies are spending millions of dollars per application (and still getting denied).
An eliquid company cannot just submit an application showing exactly what ingredients are in its liquid. (That would be easy.) No, you have to do massive studies proving how your particular eliquid will not adversely affect public health. Not an individual's health, PUBLIC health.
And, if you're an eliquid manufacturer, all this is a moot point anyway because what vape setup will you use to conduct your studies? The results using the exact same liquid in different setups at different wattages and using different type coils can be very different.
So I could spend millions of dollars trying to get my strawberry cream flavored eliquid at 3mg/ml in a novo 2 setup using the 0.8ohm mesh pod. But what if someone wants to use the eliquid in a different mod. Oops, not approved for that.
(This is why the only things approved so far are for closed systems such as a vuse solo cartridge that only fits in a vuse solo battery.)
And, at the very end, it doesn't matter because the FDA is just arbitrarily denying anything with a flavor other than tobacco (and maybe menthol).
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u/LonelySquad 7d ago
They can also just sell unflavored juice and then sell the flavoring in separate bottles. Regulating this industry is a fools mission.
I make my own juice so I just buy each ingredient separately. It's not at all difficult to get a hold of it.
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u/isjhe 7d ago
When I go to my vape shop they don’t even carry JUUL. I can buy a months worth of nicotine juice for my refillable vape for the same cost as 4 days worth of pods.
Banning JUUL is years too late.
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u/Sjcolian27 7d ago
I tried both. I know that juul is not cost effective in terms of volume per dollar. I, however, enjoy the simplicity and ease of access to juul. I forget something, I go to a convenience store and buy a new kit, charger, etc. I need juice, everyone has pods. What I didn't enjoy was carrying around a Semtex detonator, coils, bottle's of juice, and mixing potions in the bathroom whenever I went anywhere. Juul is just simpler and more convenient.
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u/HalogenSunflower 7d ago
Seriously. I'm so irritated.
I now feel like I'm going to have to put in as much research and effort as I did when I built my last desktop in order to end up with a vaping 'solution' that works and doesn't just piss me off constantly. I had some contraption back in like 2014. I thought it was a piece of crap.
I haven't been this pissed at the government since they banned Camel Mellows more than a decade ago and I had to find a new cigarette flavor. How is it that they can accomplish literally nothing for society except expediting some tiny regulation every ten years solely to aggravate me.
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u/TheBrofessor23 8d ago
What’s the difference between Juul with their pods, and something like an Elfbar, which comes in all sorts of flavors, is rechargeable, and disposable
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u/sod0pecope 8d ago
I talked to the owner of the vape shop I frequent and he said it’s because the wording of the law, it states flavored pods while these are disposable vapes… no difference in the vape juice just the container it comes in
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u/JadesterZ 7d ago
Nice, so the government was bought out by big tobacco and then created way more plastic and electronic waste then there would've been. All in the name of safety of course 🙄
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u/feelings_arent_facts 8d ago
Elfbars and other products were developed to get around the Juul regulation. Basically, if you remember, flavored Juul pods were banned. However, the pods were banned. Elfbars are not pods. They are entire disposable units. Therefore, they are not banned. Yay loopholes.
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u/Threewisemonkey 7d ago
So now people throw away a whole battery instead of just an empty pod. Awesome!
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u/RazekDPP 7d ago
Yeah, that's why Biden expanded the FDA's role to regulate synthetic nicotine in March 2022.
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) will now have authority to regulate synthetic nicotine under provisions included in the federal omnibus spending bill recently passed by Congress and signed into law today (March 15) by President Joe Biden. This new authority will expand the FDA’s existing authority to regulate tobacco plant-based nicotine in vaping products to include nicotine made in labs.
Disposable vaping products using synthetic nicotine such as those marketed under the Puff Bar label have emerged in recent years as leaders in the vaping market because they escaped FDA regulatory authority banning sweet and fruit-flavored products. Among high school and middle school current users, i.e., those who reported using vaping products within the past 30 days, the Puff Bar brand was the most commonly used by a wide margin, according to a 2021 Centers for Disease Control and Prevention analysis of the National Youth Tobacco Survey.
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u/zerguser45 8d ago
I prefer the snap decision that reddit has made on this topic as the real reason.
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u/MartinTheMorjin 8d ago
Well they aren’t mutually exclusive. Philllip Morris behaved the same way but they were on team McConnell.
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u/chubbysumo 7d ago
The company that owns 35% of juul is the ghost to Philip Morris.
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u/zuzg 7d ago
Phillip Morris went all in with developing their new kind of cigarette, the IQOS, otherwise they're also pretty big into cannabis these days.
Iirc they even announced that there's no future for conventional cigarettes
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u/madcow44820 8d ago
I just recently sold my vape chain of 9 stores. It's my opinion Big Tobacco would love the FDA to ban flavors altogether. When the public can get no better a product from a private seller than the convenience store, they win. Stores fold and most everything goes back to gas stations etc.
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u/IRefuseToGiveAName 7d ago
When I was quitting analogues, my local store literally worked with me to make a flavor that I enjoyed so much I never picked up a cigarette again.
After they changed the law I couldn't get it anymore. I still never picked up analogues again, but man I miss that shit.
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u/Bitlovin 7d ago
It's way easier to order base and flavoring and mix it at home than you might guess. Very cheap, too.
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u/shakygator 7d ago
I've been mixing for years. Zero nic now but I still like the flavors. I can't remember the last time I bought supplies (that were only like $50). People buying premix are paying out the wazoo.
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u/Bitlovin 7d ago
Yeah it's crazy that people can buy like a gallon of nicotine base and flavoring for cheaper than most places charge for a tiny 30ml bottle of premix. The markup is wild.
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u/tepidlymundane 7d ago
You sound like you have some knowledge - what's up with all these very similar-looking vape/tobacco/cbd/kratom stores opening these day? Dozens of them, similar appearance, looks like they carry way more inventory you'd expect for a run down strip mall.
My bad guesses: Gold rush? New intoxicants that aren't fully regulated? Hoping for legal weed? Low entry costs? Money laundering? High markups? What the kids are into these days? Lots of midsize chain competition, like your 9 stores, and some other guy with 20, and no category killer with 2000?
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u/MedicatedDeveloper 7d ago
Low entry cost, extremely high margins (120+% markup at the shit places it's insane), good location can recoup costs only being open odd hours but only 40 hrs a week (noon-8 wed-sun is common).
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u/Bitlovin 7d ago
I recently switched to making my own juice because you're right, the writing is on the wall here. Luckily it's super easy to order flavoring and base and mix at home.
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u/Neckbeard_Crumbs 7d ago
Some truth in this comment and some bs. Juul submitted a PMTA in 2020 and provided more information and details than most companies and 100% cooperated with the FDA. Juul also preemptively pulled all flavors (including mint), marketing, social media, and lobbying well before anyone else.
Fruity flavors from random china companies are everywhere now and so the big players like JUUL and Vuse took huge hits by not having them on shelves. Vuse took less of a hit because their “menthol” flavor is basically Mint with a Menthol label slapped on it.
Old juul’s marketing was too aggressive and the flavors definitely appealed to youth. Juul over the last 3 years has been 100% cooperative and focused on curbing youth data.
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u/tackle_bones 7d ago
I use juul products. They helped me kick a very long habit of cigarette use. I thought they were ridiculous when they were more popular, and tried using other vape products before the maintenance got annoying and I went back to cigs. It’s been east to quit using Juul. They’re mostly reliable, and they’re available in a normal non-fruity flavor I like.
Since using them and with them being more on my radar, I agree with you that they seemed to be doing waaaay more to be in compliance than almost any other brand. I couldn’t even get pods shipped to me from Juul for a while because they were pausing operations as they reoriented to stay in compliance with new rules in Florida. Meanwhile, all my younger friends use super-flavored single use devices that seemingly break, in spirit if not outright, all the rules that Juul is being punished for, while pretty much only older people who legitimately want to quit or stay off cigs use Juul. I don’t know anymore man. The FDA seems to be targeting them over past market conditions and ‘transgressions’ that currently do not reflect reality.
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u/Pahndo 7d ago
"appealed to youth" Yet you have to be 21 to buy vape products in most states. Go after the stores selling these to kids, not adults who want flavored E-juice. No different than the list of fruit, dessert, candy flavored alcohol you can buy.
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u/AlpineCorbett 8d ago
Owned by the same guys who own Marlboro. Guarantee their lobbying payments are made on time.
This had more to do with fighting with the FDA for a while now in a running pissing contest.
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u/BoopinSnoots24-7 7d ago
35% “owned” by the company that sells Marlboro in the US, Altria. PMI is rest of world
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u/GarlicEarWax 8d ago
The other folks spending though as per opensecrets.org ...Annual Lobbying by Philip Morris International $9mil in 2021...
https://www.opensecrets.org/federal-lobbying/clients/summary?cycle=2021&id=D000055403
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u/Barjuden 7d ago
Real question though. Since the Supreme Court is about to gut the regulatory agencies' ability to regulate business in West Virginia vs EPA, will the FDA even be allowed to do this? This ruling would suggest that regulatory agencies won't be allowed to implement regulations unless specifically passed by congress, which would mean congress would have to ban Juul themselves. Also, the Cuyahoga river is going to be on fire again, but hey, what else do you expect from this country?
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u/lexaproquestions
8d ago
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I have no idea why we permit advertising of any "adult only" drugs if we're concerned about their adoption by children. Just ban all advertising of nicotine, alcohol, and cannabis.
And, quite frankly, restricting vape flavors based on whether they're tobacco or mint or fruity pebbles is almost as silly. I like nicotine, and I like flavored vapes. I haven't ever seen a single advertisement for vapes outside of a poster at a gas station, and yet here I sit - in my late 40s - puffing away on lemon creme flavored e-juice.
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u/Grouchy-Pop588 8d ago
It's weird because I thought flavored vapes were banned. But you still find them in most places
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u/lexaproquestions 8d ago
The laws are a mess.
Basically, at the Federal level, any prefilled vape "cartridge" other than mint or plain is banned. So Juul and Vuse are mint or plain only, and that's 99% of what you see in quickie marts and grocery stores.
Disposable prefilled vapes without a removable cartridge are legal in every flavor. But they're expensive enough most places outside of tobacco or vape shops don't sell them.
Ejuice and nic salt liquid in any flavor is legal, you just have to use a cartridge or reservoir you fill it yourself.
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u/Grouchy-Pop588 8d ago
Its funny cause here ,most gas stations have flavored disposable vapes. The vape shops do even. Its only in like atlanta that I find some stores only have the tobaco or menthol only flavors
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u/Kichigai 7d ago
Depends on the gas station I'd bet. Kwik Trip and Speedway are very corporate and will only sell what corporate tells them to sell. The privately owned Marathon or Clark, they'll sell whatever turns them a profit, including “purple rhino” boner pills that'll probably induce migraine.
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u/Grouchy-Pop588 7d ago
Yessir, youd be right. If its private you can buy synthetic urine even or tiny kitchen scales. But a racetrack or similar wouldnt even in our town. Its just not enforced on smaller companies and larger companies seem to go ahead and do it to be safe
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u/Kichigai 7d ago
I'm not even sure it's enforcement. It's corporatization. More upstanding gas station brands won't allow their partners to sell shadier stuff. They might allow something like beef sticks from a local butcher, but I don't think you'll ever find those questionable “male enhancement” pills in a Holiday or Wawa.
So they'll buy those cheap, somewhat questionable disposable vapes that can contain flavors from smaller, local vendors created to specifically skirt the rules, but a bigger brand would never do that because it hurts their image.
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u/lbag86 8d ago
Yet you can go to the liquor store and buy alcoholic mountain dew and root beer, Swedish fish and cupcake flavored vodka...blue slush puppy cider... but we get, "what about the KIDS!?" When it comes to vaping. Ooookkkkk
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u/h3r4ld 8d ago
This 100%. NY (where I live) calls an apple-flavored vape "dangerous to kids" but calls an apple-flavored vodka "a cultural export".
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u/AshuraBaron 7d ago
Not that many people who are vape artisans, but tons of people who think they are alcohol connoisseurs. "This IPA is a much better melody of flavors than that swill!"
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u/samuraimegas 7d ago
I felt like a vape artisan for a little while. I mixed custom juice for a shop for a few years and I had a fair amount of loyal customers. They'd see me instead of the owner and go grab some more cash, lol.
Was really fun creating new flavors to try in my box mod I had at the time. Even had a few personal flavors of mine that sold a lot in the store because people would smell mine and want to try it.
Shop closed down a little bit ago, gonna miss that place. Really fun job.
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u/Godot_12 8d ago
Yeah I don't get banning any of it. Adults like shit that tastes good too
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u/Acmnin 7d ago
It’s propaganda to rile up the bad mommy crowd who think their precious little darling needs to be protected from everything at the cost of adults.
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u/sikagoon7 7d ago
Fuck them kids.
People that put their parenting responsibilities on everyone but themselves are exhausting.
When my parents caught me spending money on shit they disapproved of they stopped giving me money. It didn't stop me, I learned to make money doing random shit. It ignited a little bit of an entrepreneurial spirit in me. I scammed all the other kids out of their YuGiOh cards.
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u/WarStrifePanicRout 7d ago
Its less: "for the kids"
More: "for the parents not having to monitor their kids."
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u/VenusdeMiloTrap 8d ago
America gave up on fighting alcohol after the hot mess called prohibition.
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u/WeIsOutOfHam 8d ago
Now if we could get them to apply that logic to other prohibitions...
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u/Asleep_Opposite6096 8d ago
Flavored abortions???
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u/joshgi 8d ago
And the fight against non combustible nicotine has been a tax cash grab "for the children" for a decade now with no end in sight.
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u/BasilExposition75 8d ago
You can buy a red bull and a vodka at the store and mix them: but when someone does you favor or prepackaging them together then all fury broke loose.
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u/captainnowalk 8d ago
Yeah this is always what weirds me out about these campaigns… we know alcohol is one of the most dangerous and harmful drugs that exists, and alcohol companies are always making new, sweet, candy-flavored concoctions in brightly colored cans and bottles. A lot of that seems to be the same idea as the evidence used to say “oh this company is advertising to children” when it’s something like cigarettes or vapes, but the far more dangerous drug just gets a pass to do the same stuff? It just seems like we’re wildly inconsistent here…
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u/Sorge74 7d ago
Bang makes a hard seltzer, it tastes like candy. Bang energy drinks themselves appeal way too much to kids for how much caffeine they put in it, but then to take that branding and make an alcoholic drink....
Which btw doesn't contain caffeine that's so f****** wrong..
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u/corkyskog 7d ago
I don't think they can legally combine caffeine and alcohol into the same can after 4 Loco made the news and everyone went crazy.
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u/ideal_NCO 7d ago
Them 4Lokos used be lit
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u/SasquatchWookie 7d ago
Everyone in college speech class made 4loko their argument (for or against ).
It was lit but the ingredients might as well have been motor oil.
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u/draeth1013 8d ago
The banning flavors thing is pretty ridiculous. Teens start smoking CIGARETTES all on their own and they're awful, especially in the beginning.
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u/OneSidedPolygon 7d ago edited 7d ago
Being drunk and or high helps. It's darts at parties, then darts between classes, then finally darts on the porch with your old man because you're a smoker now.
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u/lexaproquestions 7d ago
I used to smoke and am an avid dart player. I would often dart while I darted.
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u/AdministrativeBit510 8d ago
While we’re at it, also ban gambling advertising in media.
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u/Sgt3Way 7d ago
Every single sporting event i watch in Canada is jammed with online gambling ads during commercial breaks lately. I dont know what changed, but I swear that was never the case before. Every single ad is for Leo Vegas, or some other gambling site scam.
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u/Odd_Voice5744 7d ago
also, youtube is full of ads for gambling. i only get ads served on the mobile app but every single one is for leo vegas, the lottery, sports bettings, or some other online casino.
how is it legal that they can push so many ads for a service that can destroy your life so easily. what if I'm a recovering gambling addict and i'm constantly getting served these ads?
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u/scarabic 7d ago
I remember the Camel magazine ads with a curly haired dude always on safari somewhere, and everyone knows the Marlboro man.
I found these advertisements sooo mysterious when I was a kid. They were like the first panel of a comic book that went nowhere and didn’t even have a title, except for some weird shit about “discover flavor country” which was just wuuuuut? to 6yo me.
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u/therealpygon
7d ago
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I really hate these sensationalized news titles; they didn't "ban JUUL", they banned all unapproved e-cigarette devices over a year ago but gave every manufacturer almost a year to submit applications and allowed them to continue selling the product in the meantime. JUUL (which is owned by Atria, aka Philip Moris parent company) had their application denied, while NJOY, a competing product, received approval because they showed the risk to addicting kids was outweighed by the benefit to adults, and that their products were safe (mechanically). Specifically, JUUL failed to show that their products wouldn't leak; nicotine can be absorbed through the skin and a high dose of nicotine can be fatal, which is possible to occur from a leaking tank. It was also denied because they failed to show the same benefit to adults (while minimizing risk of teen addiction) that NJOY showed. While someone might say "but NJOY showed it, so why would JUUL have to", and that is because every application is judged based on its own merits, with its own supporting evidence for those specific devices.
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u/appleparkfive 7d ago
So is NJOY sticking around? I know some people who use Juul and they'll definitely be looking for an alternative. It's a lot better than them going back to regular cigarettes
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u/therealpygon 7d ago
NJOY received approval, so I would say yes that they should still be around. I also highly recommend that you encourage those people to visit a reputable vape shop or online retailer. The cost for re-usable disposables has decreased significantly in the past couple years, and it's likely to be significantly cheaper that buying either one of those once you get past the initial costs.
I always enjoyed smoking and still want to; I've always said if there was a safe cigarette with no nicotine, I would still be smoking because it was never about nicotine for me. It was way easier to quit when I could attack the addiction (nicotine) separately from the habit (mental) by reducing my nicotine level, which a vape shop can help do. There is a reason you can't pick up a zero-nicotine JUUL (or NJOY) at the gas station, and it's because tobacco companies that produce those products want to to retain their customers.
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u/Venge22 8d ago
Kids stopped smoking juuls years ago, there's cheaper, better, less regulated options easily available
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u/corkyskog 7d ago
Seriously, why get a JUUL if you are a kid when you can buy a disposable flavored vape that is the same price or cheaper, easier to dispose of the evidence (as you don't have to worry about hiding pods), and arguably tastes better. If a teacher or parent throws away your JUUL you need to buy a whole new kit. If they throw away your disposable vape you just go get a new one, like you were going to anyway.
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u/Fermain 7d ago
I tried the disposables for the first time recently, having never heard of the popular brands at all. Immediately got hooked and increased my intake by 2 or 3 times. Immediately increased my spend. I felt awful every time I threw one away.
I've smoked tar cigs heavily for most of my life, so not exactly the fresh audience that these disposable brands target. And I fell, hook and sinker for that disgusting shit.
The youth have no chance. A cigarette is disgusting and takes serious social pressure to start the addiction. These are flippant, delicious, and seemingly consequence free.
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u/Makaidi39 8d ago
What makes juuls e-cigarettes so different from litterly every other e-cigarette brands?
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u/The_cogwheel 8d ago
Juul (along with all other e-cig companies) have to cooperate with the FDA with its regulations and audits. Juul so far has been... less than cooperative with this. So the FDA went "if you dont want to play by the rules, then fine. Get out.".
Now this is where things get ugly. The FDA bans companies like Juul from making and selling flavoured vapes, but not the private sale of them. So you could, in theory, go up to Canada, buy a crap ton of flavored vapes, and sell them in the states all legally. But juul cant.
So my guess is that Juul, the leader of flavoured vapes, thinks that is more than a little unfair and wants to drag the FDA to court to voice thier complaints.
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u/WarbleDarble 7d ago
The FDA has also been wildly inconsistent in enforcing or even explaining their own rules. The made anyone in the market go through a wildly expensive approval process only to ignore or reject nearly all applications without explanation on why some are approved while others are not. Out of the thousands of applications they have approved a handful of sellers.
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u/SniffinRoundYourDoor 7d ago
Meanwhile Fruit Loop flavored Vodka is cool and Talk show hosts in the AM downing wine on television is cool too.
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u/TalouseLee 7d ago
Let’s not forget the sale of regular, ol’ fashion cigarettes. Dude, even candy cigarettes! Lol. Extra large sodas and triple burger patties.
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u/Insanity_Pills 7d ago
Soda and other fast foods are un-ironically worse for you than vaping, yet the government is on the anti vape crusade because it's new and scary to parents.
They're even using the "but the kids" argument even though an astronomically larger amount of kids drink too much soda and eat too much shitty food. I guess the fast food lobby is richer.
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u/bikebrooklynn
8d ago
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It’s the only thing that let me quit smoking after trying everything for 26 years.
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u/nightmother95 7d ago
I didn’t smoke for as long— eight years— but Juul was also the only thing that helped me successfully quit (been over a year since I smoked cigarettes).
I had been planning to quit at some point anyway since I am going to move to a country where they don’t sell Juul, but the ban is ridiculous. I don’t think kids are the primary consumers of Juul, it’s adults who are trying to get off cigarettes. And while obviously not consuming any nicotine at all is the healthiest choice, vaping is SIGNIFICANTLY safer than cigarettes. This will only hurt smokers who want to quit but need an alternative to help transition away from cigs.
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u/reddit_reaper 7d ago
I just hope they don't ban ecigs in general. They've gotten such a bad rap when those fake Chinese THC carts were killing people that were completely unrelated to nic vapes but still got lumped in. Just annoying
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u/KNunner 8d ago
So they will ban juul, which is regulated and “clean” and continue to allow cheap poisonous Chinese disposable vapes being sold to adults and teens everywhere? Makes total sense..
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u/joshgi 8d ago
Can we all remember that the large driving force for juul bans was the mysterious "vaping illness" that was caused by low quality additives in THC cartridges. Next time you think the government can't do something because democracy takes time just remember how fast they banned the majority of juul products for something not at all related to juul products.
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u/GideonWells 7d ago
That happened in January 2020. Strange respiratory illness indeed.
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u/sentient-sloth 7d ago
It was happening all 2019 too tbf. Knew a friend who was hospitalized in April 2019 after smoking one of the trash carts. Had to have been Mario Carts or the Danknite’s or something lmao. We laugh now but it was crazy.
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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface
8d ago
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But cigarettes are fine. Smoke ‘em if ya got ‘em, I guess.
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u/Just-a-Lurker-Two 8d ago
Lots of people complaining in this thread and not even bothering to open the article where it says like three sentences in that JUUL isn’t cooperating with the FDA and it’s competitors have been cleared for sale already because they did
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u/TuckerCarlsonsOhface 8d ago
I saw that, but it goes on to describe how hard they’ve been going after juul, and vapes in general regarding possible safety concerns, yet cigarettes are still available everywhere even though their dangers are well documented.
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u/FoxyFreckles1989 8d ago
But it also went on to say the FDA is attempting to remove most nicotine from cigarettes.
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u/berserkerscientist 7d ago
Who cares about nicotine? Its not nicotine that's the problem, its the hundreds of other chemicals created by combustion when smoking. Which is why vaping is 95% less harmful.
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u/NewFuturist 7d ago
Which is dumb because people will smoke more to get the same hit.
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u/platonicgryphon 7d ago
Cigarettes are still available because of a very long history of historical use, but have had a push over the last few decades to both convince people to stop smoking and try and prevent kids from starting the habit to begin with. Smoking isn’t just being ignored and the most recent generations have been extremely close to avoiding the habit all together, but yeah vaping is being unfairly targeted when it has shown a large spike in usage among high school kids and breathing foreign particles into your lungs is not healthy.
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u/CyberZalophus 8d ago
They better ban all of Chinese vapes that go along with it. The minute they banned juul 100 different brands of Chinese kill-your-lung vapes appeared in every flavor under the sun.
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u/GrilledCheeser 8d ago
Good thing I quit 346 days ago
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u/Eiffel-Tower777 7d ago
When I quit (1986), it took me a year to feel normal. So if your experience is similar, you're almost there. A friend of mine gave me some good advice which has worked for me. Don't ever take one more puff. There's no good outcome. At this point, you will either hate it (tastes terrible, cough cough)... or you'll kind of like it. Both results are terrible. Congratulations!
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u/GrilledCheeser 7d ago
Thank you! You are absolutely right. For me, the cravings truly went away after about six months but by that time I would just kinda chuckle and tell my brain to “give it up buddy! It’s not gonna happen”
I will never smoke again. The first three weeks were such a nightmare, and I remember it clearly. I am not going through that again! I won.
Also my app that tracks my quitting journey shows I have saved just under 3,000 USD by not buying the juul pods. Crazy.
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u/TheSalaminizer420 7d ago
Fuck this country is so stupid. Actual cigarettes are legal but a safer alternative is not? This reeks of Big Tobacco.
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u/StryderXGaming 7d ago
Funny how these can get banned yet cigarettes just need a label. Almost like the system is broken
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u/trinithepooh2 7d ago
Thanks! Now I can drink an unlimited amount of alcohol and smoke dozens of cigarettes a day in peace! But at least Juul is banned! What a relief! /s
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u/reaper527 7d ago
this won't happen. it will get appealed, get tied up in court for years, they'll point out that the FDA already authorized similar products from competing manufacturers, a more sane FDA will reverse the decision, and these vapes will ultimately not miss a single day of sales due to being pulled from store shelves.
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u/PimpDaddyEzio 7d ago edited 7d ago
always found it hilarious e cigs are always in ads to be banned yet normal smoking is commonly accepted
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u/HialeahRootz 7d ago
I know they targeted Juul for their marketing practices, but how does banning Juul help in the long run? There are still numerous products/devices that can replace the Juul. All I see the younger folk using nowadays is the NOVOs or the Aris. Will they ban those as well? Seems like a big pony show to appease angry parents.
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u/mogsoggindog 7d ago
I don't get why so much effort is spent on trying to ban nicotine products. Its one of the lowest-priority societal problems on my list.
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u/BullockHouse 7d ago
The lunatics are running the asylum at the FDA. Traditional tobacco products kill 480,000 Americans a year. There have been less than 100 vaping deaths EVER and 0 from legal products. No-one has ever died from a legal nicotine vape.
Nicotine vaporizers are a tremendous public health win. It could save literally millions of lives over the next decade. Forcing vaping products to jump through hoops that make them less competitive with traditional tobacco products is regulator malpractice. There's no rational justification for it, and the stakes are almost unimaginably large. Nuking a small city would result in fewer deaths.
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u/PUFFED_UP_CROWS_COCK 7d ago
We need to do something about the “disposable” rechargeable ecigs. I’m finding enough li-ion cells on the ground to power a fuckin ps2 on my walks.
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u/Immediate-Mongoose58 7d ago
All I can say is they better not institute a blanket ban on e cigs/smoke devices because I’ve been off cigarettes since February and it’s only because of this smok pen thing I’ve been using
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u/BrendyNew 8d ago •
There goes half of Reddits advertising budget