'Unconscionable': House Committee Adds $37 Billion to Biden's $813 Billion Military Budget | The proposed increase costs 10 times more than preserving the free school lunch program that Congress is allowing to expire "because it's 'too expensive,'" Public Citizen noted.

[u/SetMau92]

https://www.commondreams.org/news/2022/06/22/unconscionable-house-committee-adds-37-billion-bidens-813-billion-military-budget

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[u/JasterMareel]

Compromise by just hiding the free lunch program in the NDAA where it will get zero push back. Win-win.

[u/Jaerin → u/JasterMareel]

Make it a military mandate to make sure every person is defended from our enemy, hunger.

*edit While we're at it let's mandate the Department of Homeland security must make sure everyone has a home to secure.

[u/blatantninja → u/Jaerin]

It supports the military. Childhood hunger has a direct negative effect on development meaning kids are less likely to meet entry requirements for the military. So totally a national defense issue

[u/quasarj → u/blatantninja]

My thoughts exactly. And the kids getting free lunches are more likely to be joining the military later anyway…

[u/MyohMy1137 → u/quasarj]

Why don’t presidents fight the war?

[u/dangerdarklight → u/MyohMy1137]

Why do they always send the poor?

[u/Glass_Organic → u/MyohMy1137]

Why do they always send the poor?

[u/DigitalUnlimited → u/Glass_Organic]

Wake up! Grab a brush put on a little makeup! Wait wrong song...

[u/GuiltyEidolon → u/blatantninja]

I assume you're joking, but school lunch measures and similar anti-hunger measures were largely put in place due to how bad America's fighting force was in the early 1900s. Malnutrition in children was a huge issue, and led to military recruits being smaller and less healthy than some other European counterparts. It's also a reason why we have iodine fortified salt, as well as fortified breads.

[u/DigitalUnlimited → u/Jaerin]

This! Hunger is a terrorist!

[u/LeicaM6guy → u/DigitalUnlimited]

Easy solution: eat the terrorists.

[u/thedude37 → u/LeicaM6guy]

Osama bin Latke

[u/Grizzly_Berry → u/thedude37]

Vladimir Poutine

[u/snuFaluFagus040 → u/Grizzly_Berry]

Sirajuddin Hibachi

[u/TokiMcNoodle → u/snuFaluFagus040]

Kim Jong Mmm

[u/Parking_Lawyer_8759 → u/TokiMcNoodle]

Mohammad Bin Salmon

[u/VaguelyShingled → u/Parking_Lawyer_8759]

Pol Potstickers

[u/Reddcity → u/LeicaM6guy]

And the rich. I bet that gout taste delicious.

[u/TangNaU → u/DigitalUnlimited]

You kid, but food and this nation's youth are absolutely a matter of national security. It's time that it gets recognized as such, and gets long term funding.

[u/got_outta_bed_4_this → u/TangNaU]

Malnourished kids don't grow into strong fighters, that's a fact everyone can agree with.

[u/theog_thatsme → u/got_outta_bed_4_this]

Starving citizens commit crimes and riot. It’s not fucking rocket science

[u/hexydes → u/theog_thatsme]

If it were though, the military industrial complex might take it more seriously...

[u/Matterom → u/theog_thatsme]

The for profit prisons still need a labor force.

God that's fucking dark why did i think this.

[u/Accomplished-Diet-70 → u/Matterom]

Because it's true

[u/cheebamech → u/Matterom]

starve the population enough so that they worry constantly about their next meal but not quite so much that they would revolt

[u/NoFaithlessness4949 → u/TangNaU]

It’s almost as if the creating of the social safety nets were the direct response of the more than 25 million men that were ruled unfit to serve during ww2

[u/Youandiandaflame → u/TangNaU]

Over a decade ago, DoD acknowledged this yet here we are. Too Fat to Fight lays out the issue well and I regularly used it when arguing we do better for the military and their families when I was a DoD contracted researcher.

Fun fact: at least in my area, a organization on Post (I can’t for the life of me remember which one though, ACS maybe?) provides a cash benefit to soldiers that, no shit, puts ‘em a buck above the dollar limit to qualify for food stamps. Soldiers on SNAP rolls is a bad look for America so we screw them so they can’t get them. Which just perpetuates the issue. It’s all fucked.

[u/OneHumanPeOple → u/DigitalUnlimited]

The war against hunger. Honestly, I’d love to see some ads about childhood hunger played especially in Kentucky which is Mitch McConnell’s state. 1 in 4 children is poor or extremely poor while he’s got $150 million.

[u/shot_of_fireball79 → u/OneHumanPeOple]

KY people see these ‘ads’ everyday all around our communities within our own families. There’s no point rubbing salt in the wounds. But, apparently “most” people keep him voted in while the rest of us sane people just wait for him to fall off the face of the Earth. It would be great day when that happens. Hell, I’d say make it a Holiday

[u/GrouchyAd5068 → u/shot_of_fireball79]

So much ignorance in KY. Some family still vote for Republicans even though they don't like trump. I don't understand it. They are good people that go out of their way to help others. But hurt themselves, their offspring and the people they help through ignorance and their votes. They never disagree with me on an unissued besides abortion. Just have no idea who is doing what where.

[u/theonedeisel → u/Jaerin]

I don't get why presidents don't declare war on hunger and climate change, they are legitimate threats to our safety and could use the coordination a military can have

[u/imitation_crab_meat → u/theonedeisel]

Instead of war on poverty, they got a war on drugs so the police can bother me.

--Tupac Shakur

[u/fingerscrossedcoup → u/Jaerin]

That will work only after the weapons makers find a way to profit off food. It's not so much that we want to fund the military. Our politicians want to fund their campaign contributors.

[u/CheridanTGS → u/fingerscrossedcoup]

Can we give the kids surplus MREs or something?

[u/Tiinpa → u/CheridanTGS]

We’re trying to reduce war crimes.

[u/Aitch-Kay → u/CheridanTGS]

MREs are much higher quality, much better tasting, and much more nutritious than the average school lunch. My daughter is in Kindergarten, and her school lunch is regularly a cold breadstick that has cheese inside, two giant sticks of celery, and a milk.

[u/deusset → u/Jaerin]

You're being glib, but imagine if the Army's logistics expertise and apparatus were tasked to distribute equitable nutrition to all of America's children.....

[u/felixfelix → u/JasterMareel]

Call it "warfighter readiness" because kids who starve won't be able to join the military.

[u/FlingFlamBlam → u/felixfelix]

In all seriousness: the health of the country SHOULD be a national security concern. The fact that children are allowed to go hungry and that adults are allowed to get sicker & die from preventable diseases could mean the downfall of the country if something ever happens where large amounts of manpower are suddenly needed.

We know that they're not going to fix healthcare (and other issues) because of morality. But they SHOULD (at least try to) fix those issues because of practicality.

[u/throwaway1138 → u/FlingFlamBlam]

In all seriousness: the health of the country SHOULD be a national security concern.

It is! The military has literally come right out and said they are having trouble recruiting because all the candidates are overweight, diabetic, out of shape in general. Too lazy to search but they e been vocal about it.

[u/Not-That-Other-Guy → u/felixfelix]

Kids who are starving and poor are the recruitment demographic though.

[u/OneHumanPeOple → u/felixfelix]

Also, Russians and North Koreans let their kids starve and we’re better than them.

[u/nemocluecrj → u/OneHumanPeOple]

I say this a lot. Can't agree enough because if we're not better than letting kids starve, the US is just as much of a failed state as those countries. This is the absolute bare minimum, and if we can't meet it, that's entirely a reflection of the fact that this country is unsalvageable.

[u/WilliamsTell → u/nemocluecrj]

Let's be real for a sec. I think we both know this is about making the "right" people suffer. Bonus points if they turn to crime to feed themselves and their children. Then the prison institution gets a piece and homes get broken. Further crippling the "lower" classes.

These are the same people who let Covid fester at the open when timing was critical. Because their data showed it was primarily hitting Democratic area's. Aka major population centers and transport hubs.

[u/jonkerbaby → u/OneHumanPeOple]

American poverty is over two percent higher than Russians fyi

[u/DarkwingDuckHunt → u/JasterMareel]

This is exactly why they started tying it to the farm bill every year

[u/Okies_biggest_fan → u/DarkwingDuckHunt]

Tying unrelated bills together should be illegal

[u/Cyllid → u/Okies_biggest_fan]

Let's add this to the military budget bill. Then it might get through.

[u/Deggit → u/Cyllid]

Congress used to run on logrolling and earmarks.

We got rid of those because of Senator McCain grandstanding against "$10 million to study grizzly bear DNA in Yellowstone Park."

Then over the last 12 years - under Reid, McConnell and then Schumer - we turned the Senate into a quasi-Parliament where the Senate Leader completely controls the agenda. Amendments and debates are highly restricted. Entire slates of bills from the House get buried. An impeachment referral from the House came dangerously close to being completely ignored - that is insane.

Congress ROUTINELY FAILS to pass a yearly budget and everything is done ad hoc. The "emergency" nonbudget spending of the George W. Bush years is now routine.

And above all, the filibuster and reconciliation rules combine to the effect that the US Senate can barely hernia out 1 constipated megabill every session. Everything that actually affects the budget has to go in 1 bill and if it gets blocked it torpedos a president's entire agenda.

a really good example is how Reddit hates Senator Manchin for killing the progressive BBB bill. But I bet most Redditors don't know that Manchin supports many of the individual components of the bill.

For example, the free school meals that are in the headline of this article, are something Manchin supports continuing.

Universal pre-K, more nuclear power, child tax credit, and the negotiation option to lower prescription drug costs, are all Reddit progressivebro priorities that would get Manchin's vote if they were individual bills.

I'm not going to pretend that Manchin is fully on our side, there are many parts of BBB that were dealbreakers for him that we would never realistically negotiate him to support like adding more Medicare spending (hearing coverage) and adding more fees & regulation to the oil industry.

The fate of BBB was instructive. There was never a real negotiation. The whole thing was a game of chicken. "Either vote with us or you blow up Biden's agenda." In the end, Manchin did have the balls to do it. I don't know how we expected him to do any different after seeing the fate Senators Blanche Lincoln, Mark Pryor, Ben Nelson & so on, endured for "loyally" voting for Obamacare back in 2010. All those red state Democrats had been elected as "independent minded moderates." Then when the chips were down, despite getting yelled at by their constituents not to vote for Obamacare, they fell on their swords to pass the national party's agenda. They were rewarded by losing office and having their careers cut short. Nothing different would have happened to Manchin if he voted for BBB.

But if we were allowed to logroll, do piecemeal bills, and not have to face down the filibuster for every single frigging spending bill, we would have so much more to show for our 50-50 Senate.

Keep in mind that in 2001 President Bush had a 50-50 Senate. Look at the list of bipartisan legislation the Congress passed in 2001-2002.

Stuff like McCain-Feingold, No Child Left Behind, and Sarbanes-Oxley (not to mention Bush's huge 2001 tax cut).

Like any ONE of those bills would be HEADLINE achievements for any President today.

Congress is broken yall

[u/919471 → u/Deggit]

So you've established that the senate only passes "1 constipated megabill" - which means that everyone has to compromise (lovely). You seem to suggest Manchin somehow gets a pass on moral grounds for his disagreements when you also established he already agreed with most of the bill. The actual leftists of the party had to compromise on that bill too in the other direction, but they still acquiesced (and maybe they shouldn't have). If anything, it seems like the brinksmanship was coming from Manchin, not the dems.

Mind you, this is not to dogpile Manchin - the cynic in me is quite certain that if it wasn't Manchin, someone else would be playing heel for the democrats.

[u/MrGuttFeeling → u/Okies_biggest_fan]

Throw it on the pile with the rest of the shit they do that should be illegal.

[u/anaemic → u/MrGuttFeeling]

I'll put that pile beside the pile of the shit they do which already is illegal, but nobody does anything about...

[u/Derp43 → u/anaemic]

The stuff that nobody can do anything about because they all do it in some form or fashion

[u/omgFWTbear → u/Okies_biggest_fan]

Sure. Who is the arbiter of what’s unrelated? What if the farm subsidy to grow food is done on the expectation that it is nutritious food that will be bought to feed school children?

What if, and here’s a wild one, we decided that having an able bodied, sharp witted military with the best research money can buy, was key to our national security, so we were going to really fortify that talent pipeline as there’s tons of research that food scarcity especially at very young ages has huge negative dividends on lifetime performance? What if we also decided to fortify education with palaces to the academic achievement, dwarfing the Taj Mahalany one of our CVNs in service?

What if, and here’s an even crazier one, we decided that long term soil pollution might poison wildlife, food availability, and all those future bright minds and able bodies so we are less able to fight future conflicts?

What if the number one security threat we faced was climate change? Could you imagine, 31$bn being spent to protect our beaches… because that’s where we launch and maintain our ships from?

All of that tied to renaming a post office in Zyzzx, CA.

[u/dremspider → u/JasterMareel]

Feeding future soldiers to grow their minds and muscles!

[u/Ferelar → u/dremspider]

School lunches guarantee service! Service guarantees citizenship! Would you like to know more?

[u/georgeguntherglass → u/Ferelar]

click

[u/Vandalbot → u/Ferelar]

You kill bugs good. Now where are those co-ed showers?

[u/AndrewWaldron → u/Vandalbot]

Anywhere you want. If you're brave enough.

[u/_VitoCorleone_ → u/Ferelar]

I’m doing my part!

[u/droi86 → u/Ferelar]

I'm doing my part!

[u/SheeEttin → u/dremspider]

That's literally one of the reasons the program was created in the first place: after WWII, they found that a lot of soldiers had had insufficient nutrition as children.

[u/General_Potential_20 → u/dremspider]

Unironically this is one of the reasons we have school lunches to begin with. The govt noticed too many recruits were unfit due to poor childhood nutrition and so they started programs to feed kids better.

[u/SasparillaTango → u/dremspider]

FFSGMM? I've always supported FFSGMM. People aren't talking enough about FFSGMM!

[u/RamenJunkie → u/JasterMareel]

"Need to feed potential future soldiers!"

[u/OneHumanPeOple → u/JasterMareel]

I do believe that feeding school children is a matter of national security.

[u/Lereas]

Surprised no one has posted Eisenhower here.

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

Full speech: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/dwighteisenhowercrossofiron.htm

[u/themanimal → u/Lereas]

And that's coming from a career military man. A 5-star General for heavens sake.

[u/Panaka → u/themanimal]

It’s also coming from the man that expanded and built the frame work for the military industrial complex. D/ARPA and their wonder projects only exist because he figured it was a worthwhile investment. He promised to reel the Cold War back in and failed spectacularly at that.

His quotes make for great quips, but his actual policy doesn’t back it up. It’s absolutely rich that people pass around snippets of his speeches, but fail to realize he said one thing while doing another.

I like Ike and I know he intended well, but I don’t think people here appreciate that he never acted on those intentions.

[u/lightball2000 → u/Panaka]

He also ended the Korean war, reduced the active duty military by almost a third, and reduced cold war spending in other ways so conspicuously that JFK ran for president by attacking Eisenhower's legacy as soft on national defense (the missile gap claim among others).

[u/nfshncfhncxzss → u/Lereas]

What source I want to make a post on my page and when they call me a socialist I want to link this.

[u/Lereas → u/nfshncfhncxzss]

It's from the "cross of iron" speech, the whole speech found here: https://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/dwighteisenhowercrossofiron.htm

[u/Lord_Fusor → u/nfshncfhncxzss]

5 Star General, Chief of Staff - Army, Republican President.

Against the Military Industrial Complex, For basic needs of all citizens

Rare

[u/Msdamgoode → u/Lord_Fusor]

He was a Republican before republicans decided to be fascists.

[u/Psycoloco111 → u/nfshncfhncxzss]

President Eisenhower's farewell address.

Edit: i was very wrong. This was his chance for peace speech as someone else linked below.

[u/distelfink33 → u/Psycoloco111]

Here is President Eisenhower's farewell address in full

[u/millibugs]

This is infuriating. I am a public school teacher who has seen firsthand how many families the free school meals have benefitted. There has been a huge decrease in tardiness in the morning as parents get their kids to school early to get the free breakfast. Less of my students are food insecure. But no.....we have to make sure we have enough deadly weapons and we will starve our children instead.

Edit: I should clarify that they are getting rid of the covid free meals for all program. However, so many families just miss the cut off for free and reduced and greatly benefitted from this program. We should still keep it. My students need it.

[u/Sinthe741 → u/millibugs]

So many kids showed up for breakfast, which was free, when I was in high school. Some 70% of the student body was on free or reduced lunch.

[u/I_Luv_A_Charade → u/Sinthe741]

Same in my school - a lot of them would also hold onto a piece of fruit to have something to eat when they got home.

[u/DJTJ666 → u/Sinthe741]

People joke about Michelle Obama taking away their cookies, but school lunches are the most nutritious meals millions of kids have everyday. This is why we didn’t shut down the free lunch program when schools closed.

[u/yg2522 → u/DJTJ666]

sadly, pretty sure school lunches may be the only meals some kids even get for the day....

[u/thedarklord187 → u/yg2522]

When I was growing up it was the only meal I got until I was old enough to get a job and buy my own food

[u/damonlebeouf → u/yg2522]

the small and poor town i live in is this. many of the kids eat only at school because there’s 1) no food at home and / or 2) no parents home in the evening to cook because they’re working 2nd or 3rd shift somewhere.

[u/itsthebando → u/yg2522]

My partner was a public school teacher in Seattle. I can confirm this is true, and heartbreaking.

[u/tkotex → u/Sinthe741]

when i found out we qualified for free lunch i immediately stopped hating breakfast/lunch period (because i was broke, lunch from home wasn’t heavy enough)

[u/Super_Crisis_64 → u/millibugs]

I am IN THE MILITARY. PLEASE DECREASE THE BUDGET. GIVE THESE KIDS FOOD.

[u/NotAzakanAtAll → u/Super_Crisis_64]

As ex-military, no experience in my life has pushed me to the left more than experiencing all that bs.

[u/Super_Crisis_64 → u/NotAzakanAtAll]

I thought I was crazy as I was making more rank and people were getting more conservative and I was like “Yo this SUCKS why do you keep advocating for the same SHIT.”

[u/NotAzakanAtAll → u/Super_Crisis_64]

Boot lickers, they parrot what they think they need to say to rise through the ranks.

It's easy to just turn off your brain while in the army, until that one moment..

[u/Adorable_Raccoon → u/Super_Crisis_64]

Call your congress rep!

Congress reps don’t wanna be seen disrespecting the wishes of the troops. You could get a group of the military people you know to speak up about this in public. If you start a group you can get a journalist to interview and spread the story.

[u/quasarj → u/millibugs]

Are they really defunding the free lunch program? Seriously? The numbers show it’s the only food millions of kids have access too 🤦‍♂️

Edit: I looked it up, it’s the universal program from the pandemic that’s ending, NOT the low income free lunch program

[u/millibugs → u/quasarj]

But I still saw great results from that. There are so many families that just miss the cut off that could really benefit from continued free meals.

[u/byunprime2 → u/millibugs]

How is it that threads like this pop up every week, people express universal revulsion to the idea of spending billions on warfare when people at home are suffering, and then... nothing happens? Does democracy simply not work anymore? What is the point of free speech if nobody listens to us? Is the system truly so broken that there is nothing we can do to stop this backslide?

[u/pacificnwbro → u/byunprime2]

Representative democracy in the US is essentially dead because of lobbying and corporate interests. I live in blue WA, but our congresspeople would never consider touching the defense budget because we have a huge military population. I'd imagine there are a few other states in the same boat.

[u/SmilesOnSouls → u/byunprime2]

Voting apathy and gerrymandering. People love to be armchair activists but rarely actually do anything in their community. When it comes time to vote (especially in local elections) most people just don't show up and the ones who do are typically gerrymandered so their votes don't really count for much. Then you have some states where the GOP is literally trying to pass laws that says they can simply override the public vote with who or what they want. The US has been an oligarchy for quite some time. I believe Harvard did a study on this. Or it was Princeton. Can't remember. Point is, democracy is in peril and unless all of these armchair activists actually get out, vote, make noise at their city/town halls, call their congress person/senator not much is going to change.

[u/AcidDropkick → u/millibugs]

We can’t shoot free lunches at Yemeni freedom fighters, KAREN. /s

[u/Opening_Complaint665 → u/AcidDropkick]

You know, if we did, we’d probably have a better standing in the world.

Fuck that.

[u/jdoreh]

"Four thousand hungry children

Leave us per hour from starvation

While billions are spent on bombs

Creating death showers"

-Serj Tankian

[u/ruttin_mudders → u/jdoreh]

"Ten million dollars on a losing campaign
Twenty million starving and writhing in pain
Big strong people unwilling to give
Small in vision and perspective
One in five kids below the poverty line
One population runnin' out of time
Runnin' out of time."

Bad Religion - Punk Rock Song

[u/penguinopph → u/ruttin_mudders]

Those System of a Down lyrics were written in 2002.

Those Bad Religion lyrics in 1996.

I'm always amazed, and saddened, whenever I go back and listen to 1980s through George W. Bush era punk and realize how apt so many of those lyrics are still, to this day.

I was a freshman in high school on 9/11, so that all hits me so damn hard (as I'm sure it does countless others).

[u/Zachary_Stark → u/penguinopph]

I was a freshman in high school on 9/11 as well. Everything before that feels like another life.

[u/BodhiWarchild → u/Zachary_Stark]

I had just signed 8 years to the Marine Corps a few days prior.

My mom was less than thrilled

[u/Frapplo → u/BodhiWarchild]

8?! Did you lose a bet or something?

[u/BodhiWarchild → u/Frapplo]

Ha. No all contracts are 8.

Mine was 4 active 4 inactive reserve (most common)

[u/penguinopph → u/Zachary_Stark]

It was the day after my 15th birthday, which I now refer to as "my last innocent birthday."

Even at 15, I knew the world would never be the same. Then, a month later my dad was in an accident and was partially lobotomized, too reduce brain swelling and prevent further damage (or death). We lost our (rented) home and moved into a housing project, where my childhood died. He passed away midway through my senior year, and I wouldn't get myself in functional order until a few years ago, at 33.

That month stretch is still the worst of my life, but I have come out for the better eventually. I just hope we, as a society, can do the same.

[u/KeepsFallingDown → u/penguinopph]

My god, I'm also the same age and just now getting myself together, but I can't imagine how devastating that was. I am so sorry.

[u/pyromaster55 → u/penguinopph]

Man, I'm sure you've heard this, but in case you haven't heard it recently, I'm fucking proud of you.

That's rough as shit, and that you came out on the other side better and stronger, that's a big fucking deal.

[u/penguinopph → u/pyromaster55]

Thank you. I'm proud of myself, too; I made it. My life has been pretty awful, from that moment at 15 all the way up to getting divorced one week before starting my master's program to become a teacher.

But it didn't kill me, and it truly made me stronger. People become teachers because they "had a teacher who changed their life." I didn't. I didn't have the support from my teachers, or really, that I needed while going through that. So I have become a teacher to ensure that at least one kid doesn't have to experience that.

If I can take all the trauma, pain, and everything in between, and turn it into a positive motivation and influence to teach and support my students, then it was all worth it. It is my drive, my passion, my calling, and it all stems from not letting the world beat me down, no matter how hard it has tried (and trust me, it's really tried).

[u/antillian → u/Zachary_Stark]

I was a freshman, too. I was just remarking to someone the other day that in my lifetime the world has changed so many times. 9/11, 2 wars, recessions, pandemic, etc.

[u/hoodatninja → u/penguinopph]

“Yeah but like punk rock is just angry music by angry kids.”

• people not asking why they’re angry, which could also be easily ascertained from the lyrics.

[u/penguinopph → u/hoodatninja]

Greg Graffin, who wrote those Bad Religion lyrics, is a twice published PhD (Cornell, 2003) whose expertise is on animal consciousness and societies, was either starting his PhD work when he wrote those, or was prepping to begin it.

(I'm sure you knew this already, but it's worth sharing regardless.)

[u/teeim → u/penguinopph]

And then you have Propagandhi, where frontman Chris Hannah claims to have no more than a high school diploma, but you'll find some of the most intelligent and thought-provoking lyrics paired with some seriously shredding music. And they've been doing this since at least the early 90's and still going.

[u/penguinopph → u/teeim]

I've met Chris Hannah a few times over the years, and I guarantee that dude has put in the reading, studying, and discussion time to equate out to multiple master's and doctorates, just never paid for the structure or degrees.

I saw Propagandhi on election night in 2012. The election was called for Obama by the time they started, and Chris walked out, said "whew, you guys dodged a bullet there, huh?" then went right into their first song. They're firmly entrenched in my revolving order of top-5 bands, where they're all basically the same level, and #1 is just based on what mood I'm I at the time.

(In case you ask: Propagandhi, Dillinger Four, Mogwai, Iron Chic, and Pelican)

[u/DukeLeto10191 → u/penguinopph]

It's sad, I almost feel like we forgot how to do protest rock? Killed it in the 60s and 70s, then the punk scene picked up where the peacenicks left off, Rage and System gave us some mad energy after that, and now, well...I don't even know. Is Green Day still touring, at least? We're citizens without anthems, and my heart hurts for it.

[u/AAkacia → u/DukeLeto10191]

We got a lotttt of protest music still in metal and hardcore and punk. It just isn't as popular as it used to be.

[u/SwimmingBirdFromMars → u/DukeLeto10191]

It’s more that there’s just more music access than ever so it’s less likely that small groups existing in subcultures reach anything outside of that subculture.

There’s also less conversation about music, in general, from my very anecdotal experience.

[u/ShogunFirebeard → u/DukeLeto10191]

The slack's been picked up by other genres. This is America is the first song that came to mind.

[u/FlipSchitz → u/ShogunFirebeard]

Yeah, there are rappers speaking about this stuff now. Run the Jewels are my favorite and they have some awesome tracks with De La from RaTM that pull no punches.

A few standouts:

A Report to the Shareholders/Kill Your Masters

JU$T

Lie, Cheat, Steal - (No De La Rocha feature on this one)

Close Your Eyes and Count to Fuck

[u/Jesuslikesyourbutt → u/DukeLeto10191]

The Used - A Song to Stifle Imperial Progression

Marina and the Diamonds- New America

These artists have a few songs that kinda give the same vibe.

Marina isn't rock though, now that I read through your comment again, sorry.

[u/65isstillyoung → u/penguinopph]

Politicians hide themselves away They only started the war Why should they go out to fight? They leave that role to the poor, yeah Black Sabbath 1970

Tin soldiers and Nixon coming We're finally on our own This summer I here the drumming Four dead in Ohio Neal young 1968?

[u/byingling → u/65isstillyoung]

Kent State (what the song describes) happened May 4, 1970.

Source: boomer

We are not the enemy. The generational distraction is just a wonderful way to distract from class war. Especially since racism has fallen somewhat out of favor.

[u/riannaearl → u/penguinopph]

The Decline by NOFX is another good example. I was a junior in HS when 9/11 happened. I'm so tired of all the fucking fighting and religious bs. It's been exhausting to exist in.

[u/clownbabyhasarrived → u/ruttin_mudders]

"They got money for war but can't feed the poor." - 2pac

[u/pukem0n → u/ruttin_mudders]

Let them eat war

[u/Bigsam411 → u/pukem0n]

That's how to ration the poor.

[u/dudefise → u/ruttin_mudders]

It's not just musicians who note the issue. Politicians - even military-second career ones...

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people.

This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron."

• Dwight Eisenhower

[u/Bigsam411 → u/ruttin_mudders]

That album (The Gray Race) is super underrated as it's one of the 3 without the involvement of Brett and people write it off. It is really damn good though.

[u/muscles83 → u/jdoreh]

Weapons not food, not homes, not shoes

Not need, just feed the war cannibal animal

I walk the corner to the rubble that used to be a library

Line up to the mind cemetery now

What we don't know keeps the contracts alive and movin'

They don't gotta burn the books they just remove 'em

While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells

Rally 'round the family, pockets full of shells

RATM - Bulls on Parade

[u/sinocarD44 → u/muscles83]

Love that song and it's the first time I know everything he says.

[u/SHOWTIME316 → u/muscles83]

This is the one I think of every time. Incredibly sad that it could have been written yesterday.

[u/DerogatoryDuck → u/SHOWTIME316]

Even sadder that it could have been written hundreds if not thousands of years ago too.

[u/kitchen_masturbator → u/muscles83]

Are there any modern bands that have the same message and large audience that RATM did? Feels like there aren’t any mainstream bands these days that base their music/lyricism around protest songs, which is a shame.

[u/Indercarnive → u/jdoreh]

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron.

- Eisenhower

[u/FriedDickMan → u/jdoreh]

They’ve got money for war, but can’t feed the poor. -2Pac

[u/bpi89 → u/jdoreh]

It’s amazing how accurate and relevant SoaD was 20 years ago and still is today. I didn’t realize how true this stuff was when I first heard it, figured they were just being edgy, but I was young and naive.

Wonder what kind of stuff SoaD and RatM would be singing about if they still made new music today… but then I realize nothing has changed and it would just be more of the same.

[u/RamblinSean → u/bpi89]

I always joked around that I was "radicalized" in history class because I found early 1900's political cartoons the same time I found RatM and realized that despite the almost 100 year separation, they were practically the same.

[u/HR7-Q → u/RamblinSean]

This is exactly why they want to defund schools and kill public educations. Why they rail against CRT.

If you look back, we've had the EXACT SAME GODDAMN ISSUES for over a hundred years. We know the solutions to these issues. But they negatively affect the wealthy so we stick our fingers in our ears and pretend it didn't happen. We pretend these are new issues, somehow the fault of our children and not our politicians. It's fucking maddening.

[u/jacls0608 → u/bpi89]

Dude their heyday was during the Bush years. If you were in high-school it was something that was on most of our minds.

I actually got in trouble for sitting down during the pledge in high-school because I hated our government then and I still do. We don't take care of our citizens at all, we'd rather bomb brown people - and that hasn't changed in 20 years.

[u/Duel_Option → u/jacls0608]

You are overlooking the amount of people who listened to the music but never HEARD the lyrics.

The guys at my high-school jamming to Rage were driving their parents BMW’s and looking down on everyone else because they were poor or a different color.

I enjoyed watching the hypocrisy of it

[u/do0b → u/Duel_Option]

Remember the politician who tried to use “We’re not going to take it” by the Twisted Sisters as his theme song?

He missed the entire point of the song by miles.

Edit:sauce

[u/bpi89 → u/jacls0608]

I wasn’t quite in high school during Toxicity and Steal This Album! I was still in middle school so a lot of these concepts didn’t really make sense to me when they came out. It didn’t start to resonate until a few years later.

[u/Psyteq → u/bpi89]

SOAD is getting back together for a tour if I'm remembering correctly. Didn't hear of any new music but maybe

[u/Starbuckshakur → u/jdoreh]

"Shit, the Government's an addict

With a billion dollar a week kill brown people habit

And even if you ain't on the front line

When massah yell crunch time, you right back at it

Plain look at how you hustling backwards

At the end of the year, add up what they subtracted

Three outta 12 months, your salary pays for that madness

Man, that's sadness

What's left? Get a big ass plasma

To see where they made Dan Rather point the damn camera

Only approved questions get answered

Now stand your ass up for that national anthem"

-Brother Ali

[u/Funkycoldmedici → u/jdoreh]

As the reasons for the carnage cut their meat and lick the gravy We oil the jaws of the war machine and feed it with our babies

The body bags and little rags of children torn in two And the jellied brains of those who remain to put the finger right on you As the madmen play on words and make us all dance to their song To the tune of starving millions, to make a better kind of gun

• Iron Maiden

[u/shonk1105 → u/jdoreh]

Boom!

[u/ForestGuy29]

Teacher in a Title I school with over 60% of my students qualified for free or reduced cost lunch. This program was priceless. No stigma about who could afford lunch, no embarrassing refusals of food to kids that owe money. Kids avoid embarrassment at all costs, so a lot of them just forego eating to keep their peers from knowing they owe money or don’t have to pay at all.

Not only do hungry kids not learn, but they tend to act out (we all get hangry), leading to interruptions and learning loss for the entire class. I guess it’s easier and more lucrative to invest in killing rather than our own future.

[u/DubbleDiller → u/ForestGuy29]

no embarrassing refusals of food to kids that owe money

The fact that this is a clause that would ever even need to be typed, well it just sends me into a pit of despair.

[u/Rectal_Domino → u/DubbleDiller]

I was that kid in grade school. No money for lunch, and my parents “didn’t believe in” the reduced- or no-cost option. So, at the age of five, I just got in the habit of not eating lest the other poor people at my school find out that I was poor too.

The school would feed a kid via charge (they’d just add a $1.xx charge to your school account) for up to five days without having money for a lunch ticket, which I found out about in seventh grade. Didn’t do me a lot of good then, as by that time I was mowing yards and shit so I had my own $6-7.50 (whatever it was 20 years ago, I think $1.25 or $1.50/meal) to spend on lunch on any given week.

[u/SkyBaby218]

That military budget increase is going nowhere except back into the pockets of politicians and their friends with military contracts. It doesn't go to the soldiers, it doesn't even really mean better equipment for them either.

We need to shut down wasteful military spending and put that money towards actually improving our society. With us being done with major conflict in the middle east, we should easily be able to dial the budget back instead of increasing it.

Edit: former infantryman. Served in the Army for 10 years, with 3 combat tours.

[u/Neat_On_The_Rocks → u/SkyBaby218]

It sure feels like we could live in a utopia if we cut military spending in half even.

Imagine $400 BILLION every single year freed up. Sigh.

[u/sadpanda___ → u/Neat_On_The_Rocks]

But then how would we be team America, world police?

[u/Rolf_Dom → u/sadpanda___]

Pretty sure the US could cut their military budget in half and actually increase their military power if they actually focused on efficiency for a while.

Same shit with healthcare. Switching to universal healthcare would save billions of dollars per year and actually improve the quality of the care, and improve the health of the nation.

You can probably keep going with examples. Prison System could likely be made to save billions as well, while at the same time being better at rehabilitating.

Same is probably true for a lot of countries, but the numbers in the US are especially nuts.

[u/SolidCake → u/Rolf_Dom]

we can start by not paying $37 for a screw, $7622 per coffee maker and $640 per toilet seat

funny how these types of prices are “normal” for “military grade” (loaded bullshit term) items when in reality its just a blatant price gouge.

audit the military NOW

[u/suddenlypandabear → u/SolidCake]

I agree with the audit thing, but often with supply chains it isn't just a matter of cost but ensuring necessary parts remain available on a continuous basis for years or decades. When Russia invaded Ukraine we all thought they had a strong military on paper but it turns out they may not have bothered to keep up the ability to maintain any of it, so now they appear to be loading shitty technicals and "truck-vans" from the countryside on to trains and putting them into service.

Still there are likely better ways to manage that situation than to pay one supplier in Kansas 50,000x the manufacturing cost to keep producing one very specific kind of bolt for 40 years.

[u/NoComment002 → u/SkyBaby218]

The government owes us our money back.

[u/RadBadTad → u/NoComment002]

I don't want the money back, I want public services that work to actually improve life in this country.

[u/asafum → u/RadBadTad]

Sorry, best I can do is remove social security and Medicare/Medicaid.

You should still donate to my campaign, 97% of the proceeds get indirectly funneled into my bank account!

[u/HybridPS2 → u/RadBadTad]

Yeah same. Lower taxes sounds great but what would be better is actually spending our taxes on things to help those who need it.

[u/RadBadTad → u/HybridPS2]

I try to have this conversation with all the GIANT AMERICAN FLAG ON THE BACK OF MY PICKUP TRUCK "patriots". That actual patriotism means loving your fellow citizens, and working hard to be sure the country you purported love is great for everyone living here. That investing in health, education, safety, inclusion and representation, justice for everyone. These are how you express patriotism.

A 10' flag on the back of your truck with a GUNS bumper sticker isn't patriotism, it's nationalism.

[u/HybridPS2 → u/RadBadTad]

Yeah absolutely. Those people shout "Patriotism!" but it's really nationalism or even jingoism.

[u/kciuq1 → u/NoComment002]

It owes children food.

[u/DemSocCorvid → u/kciuq1]

It owes every citizen healthcare.

[u/AssassinPanda97 → u/DemSocCorvid]

Infrastructure that isn’t shitty

[u/sadpanda___ → u/DemSocCorvid]

And education

[u/captaindickfartman2 → u/sadpanda___]

Clean water

[u/Olderscout77 → u/SkyBaby218]

All the "corruption and waste" in the Military is from the CONTRACTORS. The WarLords have gotten Republicans to agree and legislate so when they use billions of our dollars to develop tech they can say it's "proprietary" and mere GIs can't be allowed to see or service it, so all out new ships have over priced yet underpaid civilians operating the most vital weapons systems. Pretty sure the same situation exists for Army and AirForce - GIs depending on systems they cannot operate or repair. (just to clarify, this is about the guys who SIGN the contracts, not the poor schmucks who actually do the work)

[u/KrookedDoesStuff]

Was talking to my very conservative dad, mentioned that people are against school lunch programs, he said, “Good! Where the hell are we gonna get the money to pay for it?!”

I said, “Maybe we could dip into our $801,000,000,000.00 defense budget.”

He said, “We can’t do that we’ll be taken over in half a second! We need MORE of a defense budget!”

I tell him, “You know, the next highest country in military spending is China with $252,000,000,000.00 and then India and Russia with under 100 billion, right?”

“AND THAT’S WHY WE NEED TO SPEND MORE NOT LESS”

That evolved into me asking if he feels his grand daughters shouldn’t be fed if they don’t have money for lunch, and he goes “I don’t wanna talk politics get out of here.”

Weird how he says that every time I bring up actual facts and numbers around a situation and ask how it would effect those in his life

[u/Ramza_Claus → u/KrookedDoesStuff]

Conservatives don't get it until it impacts them personally. They don't GAF about free school lunches until their family member is going hungry. They don't care about gay marriage until their gay daughter wants to get married. They don't care about treating immigrants with dignity until their immigrant parents are being mistreated.

Conservatives have ZERO empathy.

[u/Mateorabi → u/Ramza_Claus]

Because until KDS said “your granddaughters” their dad was imagining black children who “deserved” to be hungry.

[u/KrookedDoesStuff → u/Mateorabi]

Nah, we’re in Nevada, so to him it was nothing but “those dirty cockroaches” as he calls Hispanic people.

[u/BILLY2SAM → u/KrookedDoesStuff]

I'm not sure I could have a relationship with my dad If he spoke, but more importantly, thought like that. Well done for trying

[u/OrbeaSeven → u/Ramza_Claus]

Whoops. You forgot racial equality. Conservatives ignore problems with minorities until their daughter marries one.

[u/lejoo → u/OrbeaSeven]

Nope they disown the kid at that point.

[u/ArmadilloAl → u/OrbeaSeven]

Don't they usually disown the daughter so they can keep ignoring the problems?

[u/i_have_chosen_a_name → u/Ramza_Claus]

Conservatives have ZERO empathy.

They are the weirdest christians. They behave a lot more like Judas.

It was six days before the Passover Feast. Jesus came to Bethany, where Lazarus lived. Lazarus was the one Jesus had raised from the dead. A dinner was given at Bethany to honor Jesus. Martha served the food. Lazarus was among the people at the table with Jesus. Then Mary took about a pint of pure nard. It was an expensive perfume. She poured it on Jesus’ feet and wiped them with her hair. The house was filled with the sweet smell of the perfume.

But Judas Iscariot didn’t like what Mary did. He was one of Jesus’ disciples. Later he was going to hand Jesus over to his enemies. Judas said, “Why wasn’t this perfume sold? Why wasn’t the money given to poor people? It was worth a year’s pay.” He didn’t say this because he cared about the poor. He said it because he was a thief. Judas was in charge of the money bag. He used to help himself to what was in it.

~~ John 12

[u/_johnfromtheblock_ → u/KrookedDoesStuff]

HoW dArE yOu PoKe HoLeS iN mY wEaK aNd uNiFoRmEd oPiNiOn!!1!

[u/AltoidStrong → u/KrookedDoesStuff]

THAT is what needs to happen... make it more personal for people... so they really understand the impact. Otherwise it is sooo much money that most people cant really conceptualize it mentally (like trying to grasp the vastness of the universe and how small we / earth is in the bigger picture) and then there are those who think the government has unlimited money or don't realize that is THIER money .. Tax money... and they DO have a choice, when they vote.

[u/KrookedDoesStuff → u/AltoidStrong]

He ended up completely ending the conversation and slamming a door in my face when I told him “Look dude, you’re 73 years old. I’m 32. I have, if I’m lucky, around 50 more years on this planet. My niece, your granddaughter, has 80. I’m not voting for me, I’m not voting for you, I’m voting for her. Shouldn’t you?”

[u/fox3r]

Remember when everyone FREAKED out about the infrastructure bill that spent this much in a decade. Don't worry though, the military needs it.

[u/Heimerdahl → u/fox3r]

What I don't get is how these things aren't seen as the investments they are.

Feed children and they'll be more successful in school, leading to a better, healthier work force.

Make healthcare cheaper and more affordable and said work force can work more, being less sick, able to work longer. Might even get more businesses up and running, as people have money to invest in things.

Invest in infrastructure and all businesses benefit and have better chances to grow.

---

I vaguely remember studies showing that all of these things have a great return of investment after a few years to decades. Even if people don't give a shit about helping others, that should be reason enough to do so.

[u/Catshit-Dogfart → u/Heimerdahl]

Because that money doesn't go into the pockets of a small number of owners, but to the economy at large. It also doesn't benefit defense companies.

Sure a healthier and more educated workforce is good for GDP in the long run, but doesn't do anything for Raytheon or Lockheed Martin right now. It's the same with healthcare, even a hybrid system would be more affordable and cost fewer tax dollars, but does nothing for United Health or Anthem right now.

A stronger economy in general is not profitable to those few, more profitable overall is meaningless in that context.

[u/TR1PLESIX]

Rep. Ro Khanna (D-Calif.) also voted against Golden's amendment and explained his opposition in remarks delivered from the House floor.

"If you're supporting this amendment, you're basically paving the way to a trillion-dollar defense [bill]," said Khanna. "Is that what we want in this country?"

"I just want to be clear," he added. "There is no country in the world that is putting over half its discretionary budget into defense and I would rather for us to be the preeminent economy of the 21st century by investing in the health of our people,

[u/SweatyLiterary]

Guys we absolutely can't spend any money on education, infrastructure, healthcare, or any of the pressing problems Americans can face.

Now 37 billion for the military? Oh yeah we need all that. Every single dime. Fuck you and you problems we need more guns, missiles and whatever the fuck else we demand

[u/autobot12349876 → u/SweatyLiterary]

$37bn MORE!

[u/stackered → u/SweatyLiterary]

50% unaccounted for or to waste. Most obviously grifted and stolen from fund and we just keep growing it while cutting social services. I hate how this planet is being run by evil, greedy people.

[u/Boozy_Cat_]

Despite no longer fighting in two nonsensical wars, we’re still breaking records in defense spending?

[u/dos_user → u/Boozy_Cat_]

That's how you know it's not about defense, but about making the war contractors richer.

[u/___zach_b]

There's no ideological space between these parties when it comes to supporting the military-industrial complex over American citizens.

[u/jdoreh → u/___zach_b]

Gotta keep 'em poor and hungry so they feel like the only way out is to join the military.

[u/Brad_Wesley → u/___zach_b]

There's no ideological space between these parties when it comes to supporting the military-industrial complex over American citizens.

It's not just the MIC, it's also that way on the banks, and bailing them out.

It's almost as if the other stuff tearing the country apart is by design to keep us from focusing on the real enemy.

[u/jsudarskyvt → u/Brad_Wesley]

Don't forget all the subsidies for Big Oil, the free reign to price gouge for Big Pharma, and the tax breaks for Big Corporations across the board. It's more than just the MIC.

[u/ituralde_]

It's not an either or.

There's a war on, the military budget needs to go up.

We can ALSO afford to feed our kids.

[u/magentakitten1]

I live in New England in a “nice town.” My daughter goes to public school. Kids are supposed to pack a snack and then they get the free lunch. It’s depressing how many kids get nothing sent with them to school.

One day it was popcorn day. They sold popcorn to the kids for 50c. The teacher told the kids they couldn’t share money. My daughter came home and told me that she snuck 2 quarters (I always keep money in her bag for these kinds of things) to the boy she sits next to who never has food. I told her that rules aren’t always right, and Im proud of her.

Also, I fucking hate it here.

[u/QAPetePrime]

They don’t represent us anymore, and incumbents are rarely voted out. They. Don’t. Care.

[u/The_Boopster → u/QAPetePrime]

I agree, there’s no question anymore. They are all now just puppets, entertainers, or players in the mega-rich circle trying to save their own (the elite) and decisions are made with that end in mind.

[u/ShaolinTrapLord]

Simple solution,

Train them on weapon systems at recess.

Feed them afterwards before nap .

All is well.

[u/SupplePigeon]

I can't stand our military state. So much waste in the name of faux freedom and liberty. And don't you dare speak out against the military or be villianized for being unpatriotic.

[u/GosutoOkami]

They also say the same thing about universal healthcare, free college, and basically anything that improves the live of the citizens.

This shit is ridiculous.