r/pokemon Dec 04 '22 Helpful 1 Wholesome 1

I kinda wish Sinnoh got its own HGSS or ORAS Discussion / Venting

BDSP was alright for what it is (essentially a mobile app company making a copy of the original games), though it feels incredibly lacking compared to HGSS and ORAS. I can't view Sinnoh from above, riding on a Giratina or Arceus. The mini-games feel lackluster. The walking Pokémon isn't implemented as well either. Worst of all, the remakes were immediately pushed aside with the release of Legends just two months later. As someone who started with Gen 4, it sucks to feel like I've got the short end of the stick compared to other guns.

I can already tell some of y'all are gonna say "But Snorkelberry, Sinnoh got Legends! Isn't that better treatment than any of the other regions?" No, not really. I don't have infinite money and I already spent $60 on Brilliant Diamond two months before Legends released and by the time I was ready to buy another game, Scarlet and Violet were about to release. Not to mention, the "Sinnoh" in Legends might as well be a completely different region. They pulled random starters from other generations out of a hat, none of the cities or characters are there, the music and vibes are different, etc. If I wanted to play BOTW (which doesn't appeal to me, personally), I'd just spend $60 on the actual BOTW rather than the bargain bin version with a Pikachu coat of paint on it. I want my Sinnoh, the one I grew up with, to have the same treatment as the previous regions rather than just shoved off to a third party company like an afterthought. I don't even give a damn if they reused assets from Sword and Shield or the Gen 9 games they were already developing anyway just to save time.

I'm not saying they should've developed 3 games at the same time, that's utterly ridiculous. Hell, they shouldn't have worked on PLA and SV simultaneously and released them in the same year! I wouldn't mind a delayed Gen 4 remake if it meant it was at the same caliber as the other remakes.

Edit:

"Should've bought PLA, sucks to suck." First off, PLA wasn't what I wanted in a Gen 4 game. At the time, I thought it'd be a better investment to buy the game that vaguely resembled the game I wanted rather than the game that wouldn't appeal to me. I got a 100-200 hours of gameplay in BDSP; PLA would be collecting dust like Sonic Forces and Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games (2020). BDSP still feels like less of a waste, even if it definitely could've been better.

Stop being condescending; I'm not joining your cult.

Edit 2: Look, I think it's a shame people miss out on the wonderful gameplay, story, and characters in Scarlet and Violet. Do I blame anyone that hates SV or returned the game before they could truly experience it? No. So why do y'all feel the need to push a game that I've already said I don't like? I've seen the trailer before it released and watched reviews of the game post-release; I know enough about the game to know it's not for me.

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u/PurpleTriangles *sparkle sparkle* Dec 04 '22

Same. Platinum is my most played Pokemon game. I remember fantasizing about how awesome an updated, reimagined Sinnoh would be, and now... we'll likely never get it.

I'm also worried about future remakes. BW/BW2 have a ton of potential but I'm afraid they'll waste it and do the bare minimum again.

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u/Pizzawing1 Dec 04 '22

The worst part is that if BDSP just had Platinum content and story, or a Platinum episode, I feel like just that would’ve had a huge jump in reception. They really just missed the boat overall, which is sad

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u/Blueguy16 Unova> Dec 04 '22

Or they just could’ve remade platinum instead of doing the same paired releases they always do but remaking the inferior games. Like one game would’ve been more than enough, just make platinum and update it, add some new content, it’s that simple

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Part of me is surprised they didn't make a Legends Arceus and Legends Giratina (ngl I might've actually bought a Legends game instead of BD if there was a game where Giratina is the title Pokémon because that's my favorite legendary).

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u/SuperLizardon Dec 05 '22

There's this joke that Legends Arceus is actually kind of Legends Giratina

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 05 '22

Classic Arceus, stealing all of the glory of Giratina

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u/Disastrous-Energy526 perfectus incarnate Dec 05 '22

Can't be done due to to the nature of Legends.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 05 '22

Rip Legends Giratina, you'll be missed.

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u/Sparkybear Dec 04 '22

The thing is that people liked/loved what the remakes added to the games. BDSP being identical in every way except for graphics, which were arguably worse than the originals, makes them feel really lazy and uninteresting. The only change was to the underground and they made it soooo much worse than what it used to be.

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u/wathappentothetatato Dec 04 '22

The underground was worse? I skipped BDSP for the reasons you mentioned but I heard that people enjoyed the new underground

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

It was better in the sense they had the different rooms, but underground bases are essentially just shrines to increase your encounter chances.

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u/Sparkybear Dec 04 '22

Plus they killed/changed a lot of the multiplayer features that made it interesting. Oh well.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Rip Capture the Flag

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u/Pizzawing1 Dec 04 '22

Yep, the way they turned secret bases into a weird statue gallery made little sense - the real bases with decorations and flags gave the underground a lot more character

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u/Dill_Pickle_ Dec 04 '22

I get that bases were changed into what you said above, but tbh as a person who never really interacted with the base building aspect I liked this new format. It would’ve been best if we could’ve had both features and the encounter chance was moved elsewhere

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Having a shrine in the secret base that I can use to change encounter rates on top of decorating my base would've been cool.

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u/GieterHero Dec 04 '22

They also made movement suck when you use the analog stick, don't forget that one.

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u/Wendigo_lockout Dec 04 '22

It's not arguable. The graphics WERE worse than the originals. The chibi style they went with was an abomination and I will never purchase another pokemon game with chibi graphics, period. Even scarlet/violets performance issues aren't a dealbreaker for me, but those hideous fucking chibi graphics absolutely are.

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u/sworedmagic Dec 04 '22

I loved how it looked, why are you so aggressive about the chibi art style lol

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u/Wendigo_lockout Dec 04 '22

Because it was so jarring and ugly that I couldn't focus on the game itself. I hated looking at the screen lmao

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u/Aiyon Dec 04 '22

I can tell you now, in pretty high confidence, that gen 5 remakes wouldnt have the world championship. And that alone makes it not worth it for me

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u/PensionPure1522 Dec 04 '22

They'd have to have the national dex for that to work. And you know it wont have it.

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u/Aiyon Dec 04 '22

Honestly i could see game freak if they did the tournament, adding specifically the mons they'd need for the teams and not the proper national dex

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u/MrStigglesworth Dec 04 '22

I'd go early be fine with that, I just want pwt back and undiluted... Not a flyer saying it'll be around eventually, stay tuned only to be replaced by gen 11.

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u/beardfarm Dec 04 '22

That's assuming B2W2 gets remade at all

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u/Fireboy759 Dec 04 '22

I feel like the Gen 5 remake is gonna be a disappointment no matter how they do it

  • We've been getting open-world pokemon games with these past 2 games, so going back to a linear-styled game wouldn't feel right. And they can't just make Unova open world since it wasn't designed for it (not to mention a lot of set pieces would lose their impact if it were made open world, such as Skyarrow Bridge)

  • This is the only gen with an outright sequel and 2 sets of different protagonists (Hilbert/Hilda, Blake/Rosa). There's no way they can fit the plotline of both games (especially since the sequel relies on a timeskip) into a single remake.

  • What additions are they able to add to a Unova remake? Mega Evos are gone, Z-Crystals and Dynamax were 1-time only, and it's hard to tell if Terastilize is sticking around for the future. Outside of updating the dex and bringing the Pokemon World Tournament from BW2 back and updating it to feature the champions and gym leaders introduced after Gen 5, I don't see much else they actually could add in the same vein as ORAS

All in all despite BW being my favorite games, I wouldn't be surprised if they opted to outright not even do a remake at all and do another Legends-game that focuses on the dragon that split into the current Tao Trio

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u/fillmorecounty Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 05 '22

I honestly wouldn't be disappointed if we got a legends type game instead. Especially with how boring BDSP was. Like arceus legends was SUCH a high quality game and the lore in gen 5 would definitely make it possible. It has relic castle, dragonspiral tower, and the abyssal ruins. They could do a lot with those in combination with the 7 sages plot. Imo the only thing that set up gen 4 to be a game set in the past like that was the actual history of Hokkaido prefecture. Jubilife village is close to the Oshima peninsula where the Japanese originally settled. The diamond and pearl clans are probably a reference to the indigenous Ainu people. And it makes sense that it's set in the 1800s because that was when Japan started to conquered further into the island and incorporated it into Japan in 1869. The plot of the gen 4 video games doesn't have much to go off of but black and white has a lot more potential (even if it's based on NYC which doesn't have the same irl lore potential that would make sense with the game lore).

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u/PrinceCheddar Don't care about stats. Ninetales is pretty. Dec 04 '22

Maybe "black" and "white" versions of preexisting Pokemon, like the future/past versions in S/V.

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u/blaahguy Dec 04 '22

Truth/Idea forms maybe?

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u/Deathappens Dec 04 '22

If any gimmick is coming back, Megas are definitely it. None of the others had half the reception, and it DID stick around for gen 7 as well.

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u/thecatteam Dec 04 '22

Same here. I remember looking at SwSh and going "well, modern pokemon might not be to my taste anymore, but at least Sinnoh will look great with these graphics." I was so wrong...

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u/PurpleCyborg28 Dec 04 '22

This fan-made sinnoh remake trailer proves that a sinnoh remake in a gen8 engine couldve been made. Obviously not every mechanic would could be implemented easily (because gf) like ride pokemon or accessorizing any pokemon, but just the core 3D omnidirectional movement and engine is possible. They reused assets from RS for FRLG, assets from DP for HGSS, and assets from XY for ORAS. Why couldn't they have just reused assets from SwSh for BDSP and made it in that engine? What hurts the most is they absolutely could've been lazy about it and still deliver, but they still didn't.

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u/AdamTheScottish Dec 04 '22

This fan-made sinnoh remake trailer proves that a sinnoh remake in a gen8 engine couldve been made.

Listen, I agree BDSP is absolutely one of the most lazy and shameless cash grabs I've seen put out and that it deserved a full on remake but can we stop using videos like these as "proof"

"This is NOT a game, this is an animated game concept made in Blender, After Effects and Photoshop, so have in mind, it is just fanart."

Could Game freak recreate something like this in game with their many billions? Absolutely but the video by itself doesn't prove anything

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u/brightseid Dec 04 '22

The dynamic battling would be such a fun change up to the formula. I've wanted that in a mainline game since Pokkén showed it off.

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u/Omniaxle Dec 04 '22

Hopefully some day we'll get a let's go rilou let's go gible or something. Not the same but still.

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u/Previous-Ad3028 Dec 04 '22

I don't think they will do that tbh.

In sales numbers wise BW is considered one of the worst sellers. While Diamond and pearl sold a lot and was considered a pretty big success. Based on that I feel like they won't bother with a legends game and just try to "fix" BW with new features like they did with RS.

Sinnoh was much more popular region which is probably why they felt they could get away with doing the bare minimum on bdsp(in there eyes the original DP was successful so will this) and focus on legends which is to give returning fans something to really look forward too. They released two games in one year hoping returning and new fans would buy both.

Im sure they would be a worried a bare bones BW remake would not sell well based on the games first release

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u/HonkySpider Dec 04 '22

Honestly, the problem is with BDSP is that they changed almost nothing from the original game except add an omnidirectional movement system that didn't work because the map still had the original grid layout with no hitbox trimming, so that you had ridiculous moments of crashing into invisible corners (especially in the underground). Throw that with the mix of original problems with the game that the movement system compounded on, unfinished animations, and multiplyer functions that weren't released until after Legends Arcues was and you get a sad game that healthily takes its place as the worst pokemon game.

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u/Hyperion-OMEGA Won't you spam me to <chord> FUNKYTOWN? Dec 04 '22

three actually. SV was released in the same 12 month period as PLA at least.

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u/weegi123 Dec 04 '22

The romhack renegade platinum feels more like the update I wanted than what we got, it's gots a 60fps patch to make it run better as well so the only thing that hasnt been improved is the graphics

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u/TunaTunaLeeks Dec 04 '22

I got back into Pokémon with generation 5. After what happened with the generation 4 remakes, I share the concern about generation 5 getting the same substandard treatment.

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u/dialzza Lil' Arceus Dec 04 '22

Even as someone who really enjoyed PLA, I agree. Sorry you wasted $60 on BDSP lmao, game’s hot flaming garbage and anything good about it can be found way better in platinum, unless for some reason being 5 levels over everything without trying is highly appealing to you.

I love sinnoh, it wasn’t my first region but it is my favorite.

The fact that Hoenn got soaring, new megas, an overall very pretty re-imagining, the delta episode and the new lore that brought, etc, and Johto got massive QOL, full color, beautiful spritework, integration of the suicune story while keeping the Ho-oh/Lugia encounter, named rocket executives with new designs, the best iteration of following pokemon besides maybe LGPE, great postgame content, etc…

And we got a worse version of Diamond/Pearl? When platinum was already a far BETTER Diamond/Pearl? Yeeeeeesh. And what kills me is the ridiculous sales of BDSP make me think that’s all we’re getting for remakes going forward.

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u/SirRabbott Dec 04 '22

Yeah I bought bdsp as soon as I heard it was coming out because of how much I liked ORAS. I feel like a lot of us got tugged by our nostalgia strings. I'm hoping the gen5 remake is way better but I'm definitely not pre ordering it this time.

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u/NEETenshi Citronic gear, on! Dec 05 '22

I bought bdsp as soon as I heard it was coming out because of how much I liked ORAS

I guess you didn't see any of the marketing for it? The marketing BDSP got made it obvious it wasn't going to have anything in common with ORAS.

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u/3163560 Dec 05 '22

Yeah, OP fails to realise his issue isn't with PLA it's with the steaming pile the BDSP was. By far the laziest Pokemon RPGs that have ever been released. Which is an already low bar

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u/DreiwegFlasche Dec 04 '22

I absolutely agree. Sinnoh fans got robbed of a proper remake :(.

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u/Violet_Ignition Aroma Lady Dec 04 '22

Unova fan here, Don't worry I'm sure Gen 5 remakes will be basically the same or worse and we can commiserate together!

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u/TheMerfox Dec 04 '22

I hope not. Walking through Mesagoza and Levincia gave us a small taste of what Castelia city could be. If they make a 1:1 remake again, it'd be immensely disappointing.

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u/Violet_Ignition Aroma Lady Dec 04 '22

Walking through Mesagoza and Levincia gave us a small taste of what Castelia city could be

12 FPS?

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u/TheMerfox Dec 04 '22

Well, yeah, the framerate there is garbage if you've been playing more than 5 minutes, but the visuals and the scale of them still have an impact.

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u/Dan_Of_Time Dec 04 '22

I think Sw/Sh did a better job showing off their major cities. Both visually and the scale.

Mesagoza feels very empty and barren in quite a few places. Very repetitive and not many distinct areas or landmarks.

Levincia was good though. Just needs to be bigger with more to do

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

[deleted]

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u/MrStigglesworth Dec 04 '22

Let's be real... The gen 5 sequels won't get a remake. They'll do b/W and move on.

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u/Disastrous-Energy526 perfectus incarnate Dec 05 '22

They won't remove those features because those features weren't on the game in the first place. My dude, the disappointment will be entirely and only your fault for expecting the entirety of BW2 on a BW remake. Platinum content on BDSP is at least reasonable, this is just having your head deep underground.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

As much as I would like to not be the only Gen with a bad remake, I don't want the other Gens to be butchered. I'll accept Sinnoh as a sacrifice if it meant they never remake another game again.

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u/IamXale I can't learn Power Gem Dec 04 '22

Imagine them remaking gen 5 but only with gen 5 Pokemon and nothing else

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u/TheMatrixSheep Dec 04 '22

I have 0 issue with this

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I feel bad because I have a petty resentment of a game people seem to love purely because I feel robbed of a proper remake (and there's a chance I could've liked Legends if that wasn't a factor + it wasn't sandwiched between two November releases), but it seemed to refresh the franchise a little. I just wish that refresh wasn't at the expense of a proper Sinnoh remake.

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u/shanatard Dec 04 '22

i don't think pla was at the expense of a decent sinnoh remake at all

it's clear that making bdsp a 1:1 faithful copy of dp instead of incorporating platinum elements was a conscious decision. A bizzare one, but a deliberate one on which the release of PLA had no bearing. it's not as if they were lacking on dev time or had other issues, it's like being a faithful dp remake was their only priority.

I just don't get why they thought completely ignoring the 3rd version was a good idea.

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u/DreiwegFlasche Dec 04 '22

I feel the same towards Legends. I think there are fair points to criticize about Legends or that I personally dislike about the game, like the graphics and the overall technical state, the emptiness of the map or the map design in general, maybe even the grindy gameplay loop etc.

But on top of that, I can't help but feel bitter about the whole situation. BDSP was literally released incomplete, got about two months in the spotlight and then was forgotten after the holy Legends: Arceus was released and praised by almost everyone at least in the reddit online community. PLA seems to make up for BDSP in the eyes of a lot of fans, and BDSP will probably not even be remembered as this huge fail and this unacceptable disaster, but more like a shrug, something forgettable, bland, uninteresting. Imo, BDSP is as close to a nightmarish Gen 4 remake treatment as it gets.

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u/HappyCappyFox Dec 04 '22

Legends is weird because while it was really fun, a lot of Pokémon fans act as though it's a crime to criticize it.

In reality, the game is empty, and it's probably because they split their team between it and S/V. If they instead just made one game at a time, not only would Legends and S/V have been better realized, but we also could've probably gotten a proper gen 4 remake too- no need to outsource if they're willing to take their time and do things right.

It's an unfortunate trend with Pokémon and I hope it stops. Every single switch title so far needed more time than it got and it's pretty sad :(

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I'd argue Legends would benefit more if it were given to a 3rd party company that had more experience with open world games so GameFreak could stick to what they're good at. Like Ms. Dendra says, "Focus on making your strong points stronger." I'm convinced PLA was a vanity project to prove GameFreak can do more than just the typical Pokémon formula.

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u/odranger Dec 04 '22

But don't you think that's the point. There are already enough rumours that GF developers are bored of making new Pokémon titles because they are kinda formulaic. And a remake is even worse because GF developers don't have much room for creativity. Look at how souless a title like Let's Go is, even though shamefully, it's the best looking Pokémon switch game from GF. Yes, long time players enjoy the nostalgia of remakes, but for developers, these are not projects that they can hone their craft as artists and story-tellers.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

There's still room to make a remake creative. Take a look at ORAS—new outfits for Maxie and Archie, some new mechanics, Delta episode, etc. I'm not expecting a 1:1 remake. I want them to elevate Sinnoh, I just want them to elevate modern Sinnoh instead of giving me a game that might as well be a different region.

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u/Swashyrising12 Dec 04 '22

Nah don’t feel bad. While Legends was a good game for sure, it had not business overshadowing the remakes as much as it did. If they actually bothered to make decent remakes then I would have happily taken that over PLA, but the whole thing to me just screamed this is for the money because they can bank on doing low effort remakes to fit their Holiday deadline to cash out on that and then also release the game they actually wanted to do 2 months later to make even more money. Utterly sickening to see what this series has become

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u/odranger Dec 04 '22

Nah, I am happy that we have PLA over a proper Sinnoh remake. If given the choice between a Sinnoh remake with Gen 8 mechanics, made by GF, vs. PLA, I would take PLA over and over again. It's a breath of fresh air to the franchise that a Sinnoh remake could never compare.

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u/Swashyrising12 Dec 04 '22

Fair enough bro, I understand where you’re coming from, PLA was an awesome game and I’m glad it got made. Just sad that it was at the expense of a decent sinnoh remake

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u/Kingnewgameplus No dual flairs but I also stan Staraptor Dec 04 '22

It shouldn't have to have been a choice in the first place.

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u/iKill_eu Dec 04 '22

The worst part for me was how obstinately Sinnoh fans insisted on supporting it regardless of how obviously bad and low effort it was.

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u/PorkBeanOuttaGas Dec 04 '22

It will never happen, and BDSP will be the model for remakes going forward. BDSP shifted almost 15 million units, more than ORAS with clearly less than half the budget. They will spend as little as they think they can get away with, as long as it doesn't affect sales.

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u/Sirradez Dec 04 '22

Yup, this is exactly what will happen if people don't vote with their wallets. People can cry what they want, but as long as the games are selling GF will continue to pour them out.

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u/sciencesold Dec 04 '22

if people don't vote with their wallets.

Even if people did, there's too many fans who buy the games no matter what to do anything. It circles back around to everyone making a fuss online being more effective at making them change their ways than not buying the game.

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u/ItCouldBeSpam Dec 04 '22

I'd really like to see the statistics behind who's buying the games, but that's probably not even possible. Even if a ton of people aged 18+ boycotted the games, there are still masses of parents buying the games for their children and the children don't care, they just want to play Pokémon. It would literally take millions of people boycotting the games, and that will just never happen.

It's sad because every new game the last couple of years feels kind of like 2 steps forward and 1 step back, but BDSP imo got the worst of it. I'd also honestly prefer if they completely ditched the idea of 3D and went back to their old roots, if they're constantly going to use 3D as an excuse as to why the games keep being released in the state they are.

Edit- I'd also like to say that I've been playing since Gen 1, but Gen IV came out at a time where I was around a sophomore in high school and reignited my love for Pokémon after years of being in a lull and not playing the games, and it became my favorite generation. I was really hoping the Sinnoh remakes would be amazing...

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u/TheSpiceRat Dec 04 '22

BDSP shifted almost 15 million units, more than ORAS with clearly less than half the budget.

The Switch also has way more consoles sold than the 3DS, so more people have access to it.

From what I can find, ORAS sold 14.53 million copies and BDSP sold 14.79 million copies (both numbers reported at the end of the Summer) despite the fact that the Switch has 114.33 consoles sold and the 3DS only had 75.94 million sold.

So no, I would argue that BDSP did perform worse than ORAS despite selling slightly more.

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u/CelioHogane Not enough Umbreon Dec 04 '22

Arceus sells better than BDSP, so if anythign that will be the model going forward...

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u/DASreddituser Dec 04 '22

Which ones cost more to make?

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u/dbzrox Dec 04 '22

They’re gonna do both and they’ll both be rushed and feel cheap

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u/CelioHogane Not enough Umbreon Dec 04 '22

Well, ironically, since BDSP was made by ILCA and Arceus was made side by side with SV, it's likelly that Arceus costed less to make.

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u/smudgiepie Dec 04 '22

I just wanted hd distortion world ;_;

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u/Motor_School2755 Dec 04 '22

HD 3D distortion world with particle effects

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u/conye-west Dec 04 '22

BDSP is pretty much the biggest slap in the face possible to those of us who love Gen 4. Putting aside the fact that it's a total cheapo cash grab that's basically just a copy paste of the originals with uglier graphics, why in god's name would they ever base them on D/P instead of the vastly superior Platinum?

I'll tell ya why, money. They always have to release two versions for maximum profit, and adapting Platinum content to that framework is simply more work than just copying D/P as is. Never mind that the games are inferior, that obviously wasn't even remotely one of their concerns. Just despicable stuff man.

At least we have romhacks, everyone should play Renegade Platinum instead of those horrible excuses for remakes. And honestly seems like hacks of BDSP are even making progress, so perhaps one day modders will whip them into better shape.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I heard there's promising 3DS ROM Hacks coming up, though idk when or if they'll be releasing.

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u/Elastichedgehog Dec 04 '22

I really really dislike the art style they used for BDSP. I know it's not the most important thing. If the game shipped with platinum (+ extra) content and was, generally, in a good state, I wouldn't have minded as much.

But god, it just looks so bad in my opinion.

I gave up with it and started playing Renegade Platinum instead.

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u/martrydom801 Dec 04 '22

It's hard to take cyrus seriously when he's 2 inches tall

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u/Elastichedgehog Dec 04 '22

He's not even called Cyrus in BDSP. Just "Boss".

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u/YoImAli Dec 04 '22

lmao what? why?

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u/ObviouslyNotASith Dec 04 '22

Because that’s what he was called in Diamond and Pearl. People underestimate how much Platinum did for Sinnoh before BDSP showed how even an updated Diamond and Pearl is still inferior against it.

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u/Crimsonnavy Dec 04 '22

The Galactic members call him “boss”, but he formally introduces himself as Cyrus and has his name visible when battling in DP. His name is also visible when fighting him in the remakes.

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u/ObviouslyNotASith Dec 04 '22

I know, but when the main villain is almost always called Boss, they have a harder time being memorable due to their name not being memorable.

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u/YoImAli Dec 04 '22

Oh i didn’t know, i haven’t played DP before (only played a tiny bit of platinum) so thanks :)

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I'm looking forward to the 3DS ROM Hacks! I think one or both of them are in development hell, but I hope they release eventually.

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u/sudosussudio Dec 04 '22

The style was why I didn’t purchase. It looks cheap.

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u/ExtraordinaryFailure ...! Dec 04 '22

Same. The chibi look has got to be my least favorite art style ever in pokemon. Honestly, to me it's inexcusable. The whole point of remakes in the past was to update the older games to the graphics and style of the current generation. BDSP was just plain awful all around, including with the art style.

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u/TheZett When were you when Pokemon Z was kill... Dec 05 '22

The chibi look

It is less of a chibi look, which XY and ORAS used, and more of a 'cheap chinese mobile game' look, which is why BDSP looked so bad.

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u/Punnnnnnnnnnn11 Dec 05 '22

I have always see DPP's color theme to be more muted and overall have this chilly feeling (PLA also have this vibe) So when I see BDSP I was disappointed.

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u/Swashyrising12 Dec 04 '22

Yes. Sinnoh deserved much better than being pawned off on ILCA who were probably told by daddy Gamefreak that they do not have any creative freedom with the game and to make it exactly like DP and NOT Platinum.

What I liked about previous remakes is that they were always connected in some way to the main series version of that Gen and elements from those were put in the remakes. In BDSP’s case you would not be able to guess that it released in the same Gen as SWSH since there’s basically nothing that connects the two. You can’t get any mons past the first 493, the overworld and artstyle is drastically different, opting for a 2D chibi style as opposed to the 3D style that SWSH had, and there is no connectivity between the two games at all, no battling or trading, just transferring Pokemon that are able to be put in either game through Home.

If ever there was a sign that Gamefreak don’t care anymore it’s the joke of a remake we got for Sinnoh. Remakes historically are Gamefreak’s forte, FRLG, HGSS and ORAS were all some of Gamefreak’s best work. But now they just don’t give a shit, outsource development to another studio, shove it out the door and then immediately forget about it since PLA is releasing in two months.

If this is the future of remakes for Pokemon under Gamefreak then they should just not bother doing them anymore. I’d hate to see BW remakes share the same fate but with the way things are going I foresee low effort BW cash grab remakes with the same chibi style faithful remakes for a November 2023 release date. So frustrating to see this series that I have loved all my life go down such a dark path.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I didn't realize how bad we had it until I watched a YouTuber mention the dropped plot line with the RKS and how the Gen 4 remakes would've been the perfect place to revisit that...not to mention, the Gen 2 remakes I enjoyed and played for years after it released. BD doesn't have that lasting factor for me. It's just "the $60 mining mini game for the Switch" because that's all I really go back to it for now.

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u/Rua-Yuki Trainer Class: Swimmer Dec 04 '22

As a gen4 enthusiast I sorely dislike BDSP. They didn't even remake Platinum, which would have been the correct answer.

But I'll somehow forgive them if they remake Explorers of Sky exactly how they did Red/Blue Team. Now that's my actual favorite gen4 game.

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u/DrSkaCtopus Dec 04 '22

BDSP were some hot trash compared to ORAS and HGSS and I'm still not over it.

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u/MoMoMorri Dec 04 '22

Gen 5 is my favourite gen and the one I grew up with so I'm honestly terrified what they're gonna do to it.

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u/Kitchen_Ad_451 Dec 04 '22

I hope that they won't touch Gen 5 for at least.. 3-5 years or longer. The devs need to get their shit together and start being competent again. That being said, they need more time to develop the games.

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u/TheCyclopsDude Dec 04 '22

I don't think its the devs necessarily, it is most likely the lack of time. Three years between games is fine, if it's the only project, but there have been multiple games between Sword/Shield and Scarlet/Violet. They need to spend more time on a project and not just rush it to get it out by Christmas.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

They'll probably wait until the tail end of Gen 10 (have fun in 2027), but I doubt they'll be getting better.

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u/Local_Bodybuilder261 Dec 04 '22

It’s not the devs fault. Do you think they didn’t know what state BDSP or SV were in before release? The executives and producers are the who decided when the games were going to release.

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u/Gregamonster *agressive maraca noises* Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 04 '22

Black and White were actually good games, so even if they get the BD/SP treatment it will be fine.

BD/SP's main failing is it's too close to Diamond and Pearl, which were crappy games to begin with.

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u/Umber0010 Dec 04 '22

Furthermore, and I know that "Optimisim" and "Gamefreak" are a bit contrary these days, but it could just be possible that BDSP where Anomalies?

Yeah the games sucked, but they were followed up 2 months later by Legends: Arceus, which is Gamefreak's best work sense the DS era. And then those were followed up by Scarlet and Violet; which many consider to be in Gamefreak's top ranks despite the glaring technical issues.

Obviously BDSP wheren't made by Gamefreak, but there are still tons of things that could have gone wrong that led to what the games became.

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u/Motor_School2755 Dec 04 '22

If BDSP was an anomaly then we deserve an actual gen 4 remake to be released

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u/rechambers Dec 04 '22

This is exactly the issue. DP were awful, and while I can understand why many people love them (even though I think most of those people are the ones who were introduced to Pokémon in that gen and are swayed by rose tinted glasses), the remakes did nothing to make them better. If the remakes were based on Platinum it would be a different story for a lot of reasons but DP on their own are just not good, and a carbon copy set of BDSP is just more of not good.

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u/TheSimRacer Dec 04 '22

My first game was Yellow, and I thought the original Diamond on DS was great. The region was interesting, it introduced online play, the physical/special split, and gender differences for Pokemon. The reviews and the forums I checked at the time were also very positive about Diamond & Pearl. I don’t get or agree with the idea that the originals were bad, or that gen 4 is only good because of Platinum.

The remakes were disappointing as they didn’t add anything of note, nor take anything from the enhanced/3rd variant. So there’s not much reason to play them over the originals or of course Platinum.

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u/Derparnieux Dec 04 '22

Before the release of BDSP, I was extremely excited for the eventual gen 6 remakes as well, which I hoped would include the comeback of Mega evolution and the addition of new Megas.

BDSP was massively disappointing and now I'm scared what they'll do with all future remakes. Let's hope they get their shit together.

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u/mrLetUrGrlAlone Dec 04 '22

Saying BDSP is alright for what it is is the mindset that allows gamefreak to put in minimum effort into their games. BDSP isn't alright for what it is, it is a game on the switch, a console that also runs BOTW, Mario Odyssey or even PLA. The game costs just as much as other triple A titles. However, it is a weaker version of a 15 year old game, completely unbalanced, runs horribly and looks ugly.

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u/MrCheetah2015 Dec 04 '22

It can also run games like Skyrim, Dark Souls, and The Witcher III which require much better graphics

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u/WWalker17 Dec 04 '22

To be fair I wouldn't consider 720p30 and 540p30 to be something to use as a benchmark in the case of the Witcher 3.

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u/TitaniumAuraQuartz Primarina girl... Yeah Dec 04 '22

Said it before, but I remember realizing that gen 4 remakes were a possibility with HGSS, and I was so excited to see how much growth those remakes would show off. ORAS Only hyped me more when it added on completely new content like new Megas.

So, SPBD being what they were was a huge disappointment. There's nothing about it I can't say "I'll just replay DP for that". It's too safe, it's loyal to the originals to a huge fault.

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u/DisfavoredFlavored Average Umbreon Enjoyer Dec 04 '22 edited Dec 04 '22

People ripped into Sw/Sh back when they game out but at least those games gave you a decent amount to do in the postgame. There's less content in BD/SP than in Platinum FFS, which is inexcusable when you consider how much ORAS added for example.

This is one of the only Pokémon games I've had basically no desire to go back to. I honestly think if they've made something almost Sw/Sh like similar to how ORAS looked like XY it would have been better received, but like you said I think their plan was always to shelve this once Arceus came out.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I haven't even touched the Elite Four and it's been over a year now. I've done more in Scarlet and enjoyed it a lot more too. Part of me wonders if I would've been better off if they didn't remake Sinnoh at all just so I could fantasize about a better remake than the one we got.

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u/DisfavoredFlavored Average Umbreon Enjoyer Dec 04 '22

Spoiler alert! Cynthia has a Garchomp! /s

In all seriousness you're missing nothing. It's just note-for-note what the original D/P postgame was, minus all the fun we had with secret bases and anything Platinum brought to the table.

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u/HAIKU_4_YOUR_GW_PICS Dec 04 '22

It was so disappointing. The E4 was actually decent (competitive teams with EV training and much better than usual AI), and Ramanas Park wasn’t a bad swap in for Pal Park. But they didn’t nearly make up for the features and content removed.

ORAS dropped the Battle Frontier, which was disappointing, but gave so much more additional content that I personally didn’t feel like I was missing out. There was still a battle facility, an island with an extra nursery (and a very long straight path that cycled around), the Delta Episode.

HGSS kept everything (IIRC), added Platinum’s battle facilities, added in new legends from the previous Gen and brought back the Safari Zone, making it customizable.

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u/Morganelefay Dec 04 '22

On top of that HGSS also added the Pokethlon which, while not groundbreaking, was a fun side activity. It also vastly improved on Kanto and especially the level curve there, and the ability to catch a bunch of 'mons that were locked to post-E4 first via aformentioned safari zone.

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u/Pebbleman54 Dec 04 '22

Imo the pokeathlon is the most under appreciated feature when it comes to new feature in remakes. Sure it was pretty much mini games but in my mind it adds so much to lore of the region and world building. It's adding new sports to the world of pokemon and I'm kinda sad I don't really see it at all in fanfiction either.

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u/Numerous-Bowler3283 Dec 04 '22

I love Black and White, but at the time it came out as a kid I found myself so disappointed with the sports stadiums in Nimbasa for simply being rooms full of trainers instead of being able to play the sports we saw in HGSS. They just hit different.

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u/conye-west Dec 04 '22

Alright we can praise HGSS for a lot of things but the level curve is not one of them lol. It's probably the worst any Pokemon game has ever had, the levels are so messed up that you have to grind for hours on end just to be on par with the E4. Let's not even mention Red, pretty sure most people just break down and fight it like 20 levels under.

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u/Morganelefay Dec 04 '22

Yea the Johto level curve was bad, but the Kanto one was even worse back in the original G/S where someone like Janine was on par with PRYCE. HGSS fixed that which allowed you to actually face real opposition in Kanto.

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u/jugol Dec 04 '22

HGSS also integrated the Crystal subplot. And Pokéathlon was an amazing set of mini games.

The only dark spot in HGSS to me, is not having location-based evolution. Not being able to evolve into Leafeon, Glaceon, Magnezone or Probopass was a small letdown. FRLG at least left friendship evolution (Crobat, etc) in the postgame

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u/Hiker-Redbeard Dec 04 '22

I checked my playtime on my profile yesterday and I already have as many hours played in SV as I do in BDSP, lol. Those games really did get shafted. The only reason I even picked it up is because I got it on sale for $22.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

$22 dollars? Hot dang.

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u/CelioHogane Not enough Umbreon Dec 04 '22

but at least those games gave you a decent amount to do in the postgame.

Yeah after the DLC.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I've been doing the DLC instead of the main game because it's so boring.

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u/CelioHogane Not enough Umbreon Dec 04 '22

Sword and shield main game is garbo, Isle of Armor and Crown Tundra feels even better than they are just by being great side dishes to a main dish that is burn inside and yet somehow undercook outside.

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u/Exhonor Dec 04 '22

Uhm, no, they didn't.

The post-game of SWSH is the most barren in almost the entire franchise.

DLC isn't post-game.

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u/Consistent-Rock8553 Dec 04 '22

What post game ?

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u/Clbull Dec 04 '22

I'd like to see another multi-region Pokémon game.

We have never seen a game since Gold/Silver/Crystal where we got to travel to more than one region. Nothing blew my mind more as a kid than finally stepping foot in Kanto after finishing the Gen 2 Pokémon League.

Every generation since has felt like a downgrade in terms of its endgame.

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u/hi_this_is_lyd Dec 04 '22

i think the problem is bdsp not pla, bdsp was supposed to be sinnoh's hgss / oras, but it wasn't, it really really wasn't. pla never meant to take the sinnoh remake slot, its its own thing

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u/AbigailLilac Dec 04 '22

I was thinking about this last night. I don't understand why they didn't even put all the Platinum quality of life features in BDSP. You can't go back on the Poketch? Wtf

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

That bothered me too!

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u/AwkwardSquirtles Dec 04 '22

Yeah, I'm the same as you, though I did my research and simply didn't bother with BDSP when it was announced that I already owned the games on my DS. Fortunately, Legends is a great game which was well worth the money, but a true remake would have been great too.

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u/ShuckU Dec 04 '22

Don't we all... I still can't believe this is how the Sinnoh remakes turned out...

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u/VulcanRyu07 Dec 04 '22

Feel like I'm the only person who prefers a Legends style game than just a remake like HGSS/ORAS which ironically, are my two favorite games the 25+ years I've been playing.

Idk. Never cared about Sinnoh until I played Legends. And now I want a Johto Legends.

The gameplay for Pokémon is pretty formulaic outside of whatever gimmick they introduce, so it was way cooler to have a game centered around exploration and ya know... Actually catching them all.

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u/DialZforZebra Dec 04 '22

Had they combined BDSP with Platinum content, put other bits on it as well and did a better job with the underground, it would absolutely have been a great remake.

Game Freak has a lot to answer for because they outsourced the most wanted remake to a company that makes phone games. It was absolutely not what fans wanted and it's universally regarded as shite.

If I ever need my gen 4 fix then I just go and replay Platinum.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

I remember how long the Gen 4 confirmed stream was. I doubt the same hype would be there for the rest of the Gens after BDSP.

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u/Banner-Man Dec 04 '22

Bruh there are so many music cues in Arceus that are amazing callbacks to gen 4 also there are a lot of characters designs that they used for inspiration for the characters in Arceus, basically the ancestors of the people in 4th gen. I agree I wish BDSP was as good as ORAS but Legends is great for the music and characters having inspiration from 4th gen.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Might listen to the soundtrack then. Could be good to listen to while I draw and Pokémon rarely disappoints with the music.

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u/Banner-Man Dec 04 '22

You really should, if you were a fan of the music in Diamond and Pearl you will immediately recognize some of the little melodies they put in to every track and it's just chef's kiss

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u/dragon-mom Lyn Dec 04 '22

I think we all wished that. We got absolutely robbed.

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u/hellomoto186 M-Beedrill is back bois Dec 04 '22

While I agree with your points, I still think you should give Legends Arceus a try. As someone who was also personally burned by BDSP (I got so bored of it by the 6th gym when I realized it was basically just a copy paste) I thoroughly enjoyed Legends Arceus, I thought it was a great twist on the pokemon formula and you can feel a lot of that influence in S/V in certain parts. Highly recommended, even if you still have cold feet.

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u/guitarerdood Dec 04 '22

BDSP was a mistake and is by far and away the most disappointing Pokemon games of all time

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u/megaviral Dec 04 '22

I honestly want more content surrounding Johto, Kanto or team rocket. Instead of new people/teams that basically act the serve the same purpose I'd rather see character development with the characters i grew up with.

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u/frenziest Dec 04 '22

I was hoping for something closer to Sword and Shield. Mt. Coronet is distinct enough (and big enough) that it could have been treated as it’s own “Wild Area.”

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u/Juliantheblur Dec 04 '22

There definitely doesn't exist a fantastic rom hack of platinum called renegade platinum with the ability to complete the entire national dex without trading and is a great way to experience a reworked version of the gen 4 games. Keeping in mind that it absolutely doesn't exist, it would make sense that it for sure isn't very easy to find it online and enjoy it on any computer.

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u/theytookallusernames Dec 04 '22

I get you, but it was your own choice purchasing BDSP, despite knowing what kind of remake they are and the fact that Arceus was releasing in two months.

Sinnoh was also my favorite region and I am very disappointed that they went with an aggressively vanilla region than going unapologetically Japanese as they did with ORAS, but I can appreciate them actually making some effort in trying something different with Arceus. It wasn't what I was hoping with Sinnoh, but it was an enjoyable game in it's own right and a good blueprint of what a Pokemon game can be, if they don't go the usual Game Freak way of of two steps forward and one-half back.

The ideal scenario of course would be to have a tandem studio to Game Freak with the creative freedom to do what they want with the remake. ILCA could have been this but it was clear how much executive meddling there was with BDSP considering the early concepts they did and what they ended up having. I would go as far as to say that (starts wearing tinfoil hat) they might have been intentionally curbed as not to make Game Freak's game look worse than theirs. ILCA was involved in Dragon Quest XI in some capacity, which was a technical marvel even on the Switch, and there's no way they wouldn't know how to make good games.

A second studio, of course, is the perfect opportunity to lenghten a Pokemon generation to ensure each game has more development legroom, but of course TPC might have been to greedy to see that.

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u/sudosussudio Dec 04 '22

That’s shocking because DQXI is absolutely gorgeous on the Switch. I’m not a professional game dev but I’m a software dev and do reverse engineering on games as a hobby. Pokémon’s issues have always smelled like bad management more than bad dev. You could have thousands of the best devs in the world and they can’t overcome a bad director.

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u/theytookallusernames Dec 04 '22

That’s shocking because DQXI is absolutely gorgeous on the Switch

I thought ILCA had lofty ambitions for BDSP, as the concept arts indicate, but they had to scale it down significantly for reasons we'll never know.

Pokémon’s issues have always smelled like bad management more than bad dev. You could have thousands of the best devs in the world and they can’t overcome a bad director.

Yeah, definitely. Game Freak does sometime feel like the last vestiges of Japanese game developers getting dragged kicking and screaming into the PS3 generation. Without getting into the game design itself, their UI/UX design sensibilities feel like they're from the pre-iPhone era, if that makes sense.

There is something fundamentally and harrowingly wrong when a group of 300 employees developing a flagship game of a USD90 billion dollar franchise thought locking volume controls - volume controls! - behind a key item you'd only get at least an hour into the game, was a good idea.

There must be something terribly inefficient about how they develop games. Would switching to a standard game engine maybe help with that?

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u/Macarthius Dec 04 '22

Legends Arceus is one of my favorite Pokemon games (even after playing SV) and I do think you're being a bit unfair to it but I agree it's not a replacement. Game Freak even named the region Hisui instead of Sinnoh- so it is effectively a different region.

The Sinnoh games are probably one of my least favorite in the series but I still feel like we got kind of robbed. The chance of them returning to Sinnoh any time soon is basically 0 and BDSP doesn't live up to the standard set by other remakes. The least they could have done was remade the games with Platinum content but they didn't even do that.

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u/5i5TEMA Dec 04 '22

Honestly?

I'm kind of jealous you Sinnoh people got the most celebrated pokemon release in recent history with PLA. But yeah, I would never trade ORAS for a Legends game, not if it falls into oblivion a couple months later due to the new coming out.

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u/icyruios Dec 04 '22

If only we can have like an ORAS version of Sinnoh with new mega evolutions

Like guys just listen to me

  • Mega Torterra/Infernape/Empoleon for Mega starters
  • Aaron Mega Scizor, Bertha Mega Rhyperior, Flint Mega Magmortar, Lucian Mega Gallade, Cynthia Mega Garchomp
  • Gym Leader rematches, each with their own respective megas as well
    • Roark Mega Tyranitar/Aerodactyl
    • Gardenia Mega Torterra/Tangrowth
    • Maylene Mega Lucario
    • Crash Wake Mega Gyarados
    • Fantina Mega Banette/Dusknoir
    • Byron Mega Steelix
    • Candice Mega Abomasnow
    • Volkner Mega Electivire
  • New post game story or maybe main story with Origin forms of Dialga/Palkia

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u/SpaceNinja_C Dec 04 '22

The Origin Forms should have been unique but show aspects of Arceus not the abominations they were.

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u/Crystal_Queen_20 Dec 04 '22

Same, I grew up on Gen 4, and BDSP just feel like such a kick in the neck, seeing my favorite generation get the worst remake in the entire series after FRLG and HGSS set the bar so high

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u/SpaceMamboNo5 Dec 04 '22

Yeah BDSP was nothing like HGSS. Completely agree. BDSP is the most disappointing Pokemon game I've ever played. I hate it.

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u/Useful-Conversation5 Dec 04 '22

BDSP is not alright. It's the worst remake of all. I can't believe people are okay with that.

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u/Gubrach Dec 04 '22

Gen 4 was my favorite gen and they fucked it up. All remakes were great. And then BDSP came. Fuck them forever.

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u/AccountSave Dec 04 '22

BDSP Elite 4 should be the one thing taken from that game and implemented going forward. By far the funnest elite 4 of all the games.

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u/liquidRox Dec 04 '22

Agreed. Bdsp was just underwhelming. For me, it didn’t help that i did a replay of platinum right before it released so i felt so bored playing bdsp. For real tho, go play PLA. I got it a few weeks ago and it’s actually incredible. The best pokemon game in a LONG time imo.

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u/Itwasentmeman Dec 04 '22

Gen 4 was my first generation, i was so excited 😭

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u/Harvey-1997 Dec 04 '22

If Platinum had been ported, I would have enjoyed it more tbh. I've got no nostalgia for it or anything. I grew out of Pokemon as a kid during gens 4 and 5, then came back with ORAS. When I knew BDSP was coming, I played through Explorers of Sky, Pearl, and then miraculously found Platinum. Then I played Shining Pearl and felt like I was backtracking.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Platinum ported with online features made available would've been really fun!

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u/_Ptyler Dec 05 '22

Hot take. I have no issues with BDSP. I love them

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u/Grieflax Dec 04 '22

My brother in Arceus, you not wanting to drop $60 on the game isn’t an argument for the idea that it’s not a comparable treatment to Sinnoh as HGSS and ORAS.

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u/bionicjoey Dec 04 '22

I can already tell some of y'all are gonna say "But Snorkelberry, Sinnoh got Legends! Isn't that better treatment than any of the other regions?" No, not really. I don't have infinite money and I already spent $60 on Brilliant Diamond two months before Legends released and by the time I was ready to buy another game, Scarlet and Violet were about to release.

Well there's your mistake. You gave them money for their shitty games. They don't care that you don't like them, as long as you buy them. Should have bought PLA and let the others pass by.

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u/WhiteStone30 Dec 04 '22

Yeah I get it BDSP weren’t great and we deserved more.

But don’t trash talk Arceus, those are fighting words my good sir.

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u/1stLtObvious Dec 04 '22

You state why you didn't want PLA, making sure to point out aspects other people have loved in condescending ways, then whinge when people consescend back? Ha!

The starters were definitely not chosen randomly out of a hat. Samurott was already based on samurai, Decidueye was easy to rework into an eastern-style archer, and they were similarly able to easily rework Typhlosion to have a traditional Japanese influence/feel.

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u/TrashiestTrash Dec 05 '22

Stop being condescending; I'm not joining your cult.

My guy you are not accusing people of being in a cult because they mocked you for not buying a video game.

Is that behavior childish? Yes. Is it cultlike? That's a huge stretch lmao.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

I don’t think they are capable of making a game genuinely like HGSS anymore.

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u/CelioHogane Not enough Umbreon Dec 04 '22

I think it's funny you are bitching about not wanting bargain bin BOTW but then say that you were gonna buy SV instead of Arceus.

Anyways for the nth time, Arceus is not a BOTW type game, it's a Monster Hunter type game.

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u/Calhaora Dec 04 '22

Agreed. The LEAST they should have done was putting the Platinum changes and additonal stuff in it. Given thats what HG/SS did aswell. But funnily enough OR/AS hadnt had the Emerald stuff either (Trainers, Teams... the fucking Battle Frontier... ), but at least they had Soaring, so its honestly just HG/SS where they baked the 3rd Edition into the "Base Game" + new stuff, they had to cut back in the OG.

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u/HermitFan99999 Dec 04 '22

If you want a proper gen 4 remake, I suggest you try luminescent platinum, which is a ROM hack of the game that includes the complete national dex(in an upcoming update), increased difficulty, the platinum storyline, and other stuff.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Hmmm, might give that a try. I heard there's one or two attempts to remake the game for the 3DS using ORAS, but it'll probably be a while before they release.

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u/Winter_Look3133 Dec 04 '22

ILCA can develop better games, the issue is that those who control the IP of Pokemon, have them tied hand and foot and have 0 creative freedom for nothing.

ILCA is developing the latest One Piece game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lze-CzSsKA

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u/GalaxyCatDoesNothing Dec 04 '22

I mean you guys asked for a remake not a remaster

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u/PotatoBomb69 Dec 04 '22

They fucked it up going for a true remake instead of adding anything that made Platinum the better game

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u/Natasha_101 Dec 04 '22

BDSP (and really all of the 8th generation and now 9th) we're just rushed. Say what you will about sun and moon or let's go, but those games are at the very least functional and designed halfway well.

BDSP also took way too many dumb turns. They focused on a 1 to 1 remake with a massive expansion to the underground. Obviously they should have added the platinum content, but even then, who really wanted a 1 to 1 remake of the gen 4 games on switch? You would probably sell just as many copies of the game if you released the originals on the eShop.

My hope is that ILCA will get another chance at a game. Maybe another remake or maybe their spin on let's go. I think we need more devs working on games with the core Pokemon formula and ILCA might have that potential. But I also think it's equally important that game freak being all of the devs together and quit splitting them into teams to meet a yearly release.

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u/flapplejuice 🧃 Dec 04 '22

I agree. I actually didn’t get BDSP at all for these reasons and I’m not sure if I ever will…

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u/Lopsided_Kale Dec 04 '22

there's someone remaking sinnoh with Gen 5 graphics and camera, on top of already existing patches that make the game harder and add in newer games QOL features and fairy typing, as well as following pokemon likr in HG/SS and a cool patch that makes pokemons personality values affect their hue slightly so pokemon look unique! I was really disappointed in the remakes too, but now, the community is making our own remake :)

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u/TheHiddenNinja6 Dec 04 '22

Not to mention, the "Sinnoh" in Legends might as well be a completely different region.

That's because it is lmao. It's called Hisui

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

That era of pokemon is simply gone unfortunately. It was such a blast back in the late 00s.

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u/Viewtiful_Beau Dec 04 '22

I wish ORAS got the HGSS treatment.

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u/Mean_Conference608 Dec 04 '22

We all do .gen 4 kids got robbed

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Pickled-Stebsy Dec 04 '22

I actually really liked BDSP and have started a new game on it after finishing Scarlet and am enjoying more. Never understood the hate for the graphics the game got they look fantastic.

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u/[deleted] Dec 04 '22

I’d rather them not do to any future games what they did to ORAS. The Delta episode was good but I hated how they completely changed the story and really dumbed a lot of the game down.

Add following Pokémon to please those people who want that and add some fun side stuff, but I really don’t want them changing the story and difficulty like ORAS did.

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u/Psapfopkmn Dec 04 '22

I was never even a fan of the gen four Sinnoh games until I finally replayed Platinum a few years ago (and Platinum is the only one of them I like), but the fact that Sinnoh didn't get a remake along the lines of ORAS or HGSS was so disappointing. I was looking forward to Sinnoh with SwSh graphics, being able to use newer Pokémon in an old region, new content and QoL . . . and we got BDSP, which was an even worse version of DP, and PLA, which was fun but lacking in content and too different from most of the mainline games. If they'd at least used Let's Go graphics as a compromise between the older and newer styles then that might have helped the sting somewhat.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Definitely agree. The Let's Go style is really cute, wouldn't have minded it at all.

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u/cyclops274 Dec 05 '22

Because BDSP came out they used the same from original. Gen 4 pokemon didn't get any new evolutions and forms after that. HGSS came out it was massive improvement from gen 2. ORAS had the mega evolutions that was the thing for gen 6. Hoenn pokemon got new evolutions in sinnoh.

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u/Killrog8 Dec 05 '22

Pokémon: Pitch Black and Holy White?

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u/Sasorisnake Dec 04 '22

I guess. I viewed Sinnoh through the lens of getting two separate dedications in lieu of the same type of remake of previous gens, as in BDSP and Legends being a metaphorical package deal.

My experience with Zelda made me realize Nintendo isn’t the best with open world continuity, so I didn’t expect Legends Arceus to be a picture perfect remake of Sinnoh, but for what it was I think together they did justice to a Sinnoh remake. You get the wider availability of Pokémon and Legends along with the original adventure in BDSP, and an all new Sinnoh dedicated adventure in Legends. There were enough references for me to be satisfied, even in the music like Eterna Forest.

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u/SnorkelBerry Dec 04 '22

Meh, I guess I could see that. I just would've preferred one good game (or if GameFreak handed Legends to a developer who is more experienced in open worlds so we could truly have the package deal we deserve) over a "faithful" remake made by the people who coded Pokémon Home and GameFreak's half-baked attempt at an open world that got immediately tossed aside for Gen 9.

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u/Sasorisnake Dec 04 '22

I agree. BDSP, alone, was immensely disappointing to me. My heart was set on seeing Sinnoh remade like Galar. I did play it all the way through but The only thing worth it for me was being able to get Mew and Jirachi, more of the other legends and being able to catch the first four generations of starters.

Legends also bothered me by not being truly open world, but it was worth the formula switch-up.

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u/TheActualRocky Dec 04 '22

I don’t’ think they half-assed the open world for PLA because it definitely wasn’t intended to be fully open. The “world” PLA uses is set up in the exact same way as it is in Monster Hunter. If you’ve never played that, you basically fight monsters across a bunch of unique biomes, with a hub world to manage gear.

There are various monsters in each of the biomes, but some monsters are native to only one. You can only go from the hub to a biome and back (you can’t travel directly from biome to biome), and when you leave a biome you get material rewards based on the monsters you killed while you were there. The biomes themselves are open and you often need to do some exploring to find rarer materials (or dens of the actually-strong monsters).

When you load into any of the biomes, you’ll start at a camp where you can heal or change your gear. You also return to this camp if you die to one of the monsters. At the beginning there is only one camp per biome, but you can unlock more through exploration. This helps because some monsters are nowhere near the initial entrance camp.

If you are on a “hunt” the game will return you to the hub world after you kill whatever it was you were hunting. However, if you’re on an “expedition,” you have to leave from one of the camps (any of which can be fast-traveled to outside of combat).

I’m sure all of this sounds pretty familiar lol. Monster Hunter isn’t a traditional open world game, so idk why GF was marketing PLA as one, because they were clearly imitating it in many aspects.

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u/DreiwegFlasche Dec 04 '22

The thing is, BDSP doesn't even include the Platinum content, and Legends doesn't either. How can you make a Sinnoh remake and one game taking place in a region that is supposed to be reminiscent of ancient Sinnoh and NOT include the Distortion World? That's like the worst decision ever, bringing back the Distortion World should have been a no brainer. Or the Battle Frontier. BDSP feels so unsatisfying because it lacks so much of what should be in a remake. And PLA doesn't bring that to the table either, since it's an entirely different game with different gameplay.

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u/geraltthedragon Dec 04 '22

I mean, MY gen remake released even before your gen 4 did. Gen 1 obv. The first version of gen 4 was better than my remake. Unless you count let's go, but that wasnt really a remake and it had nothing new except a shiny coat and a following pokemon

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u/Low-Environment Dec 04 '22

Speaking as a huge Sinnoh fan, PLA was amazing and a wonderful tribute to gen iv.

Yes, we all wanted a remake that has the quality of FRLG, HGSS ans ORAS. I'd even have settled for what we got in BDSP if the devs had used platinum as the base. But we didn't get that and we're never going to get that.

PLA might not be a remake but it is amazing. And yes, it doesn't have the characters or locations but that's because it's set in the distant past. Hisui isn't Sinnoh yet. But all the places are there and you can see how they're going to become the towns and cities of the modern Sinnoh. And it was fantastic to hear the evolution of Jublife Village's music, as it gradually built itself up into Jublife City's music, much in the same way we see the small village growing into the hub it is in the present.

And the starters aren't random. They all have connections to Meiji era Japan. And I love the new evolutions for the final forms and I hope that future legends games will follow on with this.

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u/mightlightnightkite Dec 04 '22

I hear you and agree with you about the remakes, total letdown. But Legends is awesome and you should definitely play it if you like Pokémon.