r/pokemon Dec 03 '22 Helpful 2 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Ally 1 Take My Power 1 Timeless Beauty 1 Silver 3 Gold 1 Take My Energy 1 Helpful (Pro) 1

Pokémon Scarlet and Violet’s battle animations are a downgrade from Legends: Arceus. Discussion / Venting

Despite being the newer titles and a more major release, the battle animations in Scarlet and Violet are a step back from those in Legends: Arceus. In Arceus the Pokémon would physically run over and attack each other in their battle animations. This was a major improvement from Sword and Shield, where the Pokémon would do an attack motion and an invisible force would hit the opposing Pokémon. For some baffling reason, Game Freak has returned to those animations in Scarlet and Violet. It’s not simply laziness or lack of time either. Check out Giratina’s move Shadow Force. Legends created a new animation for that which was much better. They chose to reuse Sword and Shield’s animation in Scarlet and Violet. I thought it might have been a deliberate style choice to be less “violent” or something, but there ARE attacks that make physical contact in Scarlet and Violet. They’re just rare. I honestly don’t know why Game Freak would make this choice.

9.0k Upvotes

2.6k

u/Krazytre Dec 03 '22

I was so disappointed when I saw Giratina's Shadow Force in S/V. Not even close to the epicness that it was in Legends.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Yeah the one in PLA had so much impact to it.

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u/Timehacker-315 Dec 03 '22

I'm so confused, how did you get giratina?

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u/hurshy Dec 03 '22

He’s in a cave somewhere

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u/Lothar96 Dec 03 '22

But how did he get it in SV

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u/DekktheODST Someday I'll be loved ; - ; Dec 03 '22

You cant. People are just referring to this video where someone hacked them in early to see their animations

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u/Plushiegamer2 Dec 03 '22

I can see why they didn't give a Pokemon that isn't even used fancy new animations.

Again, apparently S/V and PLA were developed separately.

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u/n4utix Dec 03 '22

The pokemon being in the code means it will be used in the future. Same thing happened with SwSh.. which means, it's just disappointing that the animation sucks.

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u/jrodt333 Dec 03 '22

Hopefully Zamazenta not having Behemoth Bash means that they’ll update some of the transfer-only Pokemon when they’re actually available.

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u/AmansRevenger Dec 03 '22

I'd actually give GF the benefit of the doubt here, RayRay also is missing some animations on Dragons Ascent and all non-available pokemon are acting really weird when sent out in the overworld like they are missing some parameters

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u/n4utix Dec 03 '22

You unlocked a memory for me. The same was for SwSh right?

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u/Drakeon8165 Dec 03 '22

They're always in some cave somewhere...

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u/JanitorZyphrian BIG. MEATY. CLAWS. Dec 03 '22

After completing the pokedex and beating the final boss, giratina is chilling in a cave at the coastlands (Idr the name.)

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u/Timehacker-315 Dec 03 '22

Weird, I found a slug there

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u/Zortn bulletpunchbulletpunchbulletpunch Dec 03 '22

I loved that animation so much. It's a shame any time I tried it with my shiny the game froze.

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u/Fyrus93 Dec 03 '22

How are you using Giratina in SV?

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u/Krazytre Dec 03 '22

You can't without hacking the game at the moment. I watched the animations on YouTube.

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u/kn1ghtcliffe Dec 03 '22

S/V was made by a different team at about the same time as Legends, so it makes sense that it doesn't have all the same upgrades. That said, there's no reason that the 2 teams couldn't have communicated better to be like "Hey, we're doing this new thing to make the game better. You should do it too." And then given them the code for it. If only to prevent stuff like this happening. It's ridiculous that despite being released 10 months later that S/V feels like a step back from Legends. Hopefully the team that worked on Legends gets a lot more creative control of the series going forward as they seem to have done a hell of a lot better.

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u/shanatard Dec 03 '22

I hope legends was the a team because clearly the sv team have no idea what they're doing

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u/kn1ghtcliffe Dec 03 '22

If the Legends team wasn't the A team before, they damn well better be now.

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u/strom_z Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

Exactly.

A big part of SV huge issues is obviously due to it being inexcusably released WAY earlier than it should have.

But in another non-small part Arceus (despite the VERY rough graphics) is SO much better in many aspects - wayy faster battles (seriously just go compare it, it's day and night), all the QoL improvements, way better UI... and of course the great core gameplay which is like... almost perfect?

While playing Arceus I legit said to myself a few times "THIS DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A GAME BY GAMEFREAK" - and of course I meant it as the utmost compliment.

Meanwhile with Scarlet/Violet except a couple things (mostly the Area Zero) I was like... yeah. Gamefreak made this.

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u/ItsHammond Dec 04 '22

Arceus also had real side quests and it's approach to making a dex was quite fun and could be workshopped into a side activity in a mainline game. Also it's zones felt like way better gates than S/V literal gates

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u/mycorgiisamazing Dec 03 '22

I love that whatever team this is, it's still the L team for any other developer. PLA might have been better, but I was just marveling at my new shiny gible and noticing that walking 3 feet away suddenly he loses 50% polygons and all his teeth disappear.

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u/tepidbathwater snommunism () Dec 04 '22

Smh get ur gible a pokèdentist

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u/MLein97 Dec 04 '22

The A team is actually the Let's Go team. They haven't had their open world entry yet.

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u/TBOJ Dec 03 '22

wait, how did you even see giratina?

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u/MLein97 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

There's like 3 development teams and they don't really sync up or stay on the same product line.

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u/Kruiii Dec 03 '22

as much as i like scarlet/violet....

if you play scarlet/violet and then play legends arceus, legends will feel like the newer game.

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u/CamoKing3601 Dec 03 '22

they removed Decidueye's flying flip kick and i'm mad about that

now he just.. moves his feet up to summon a beam attack and fires 3 arrows afterwards

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Also the bow and arrow animation in the regular form

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u/Alonest99 Dec 04 '22

Noooooooo

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u/atcjwest Dec 03 '22

OT but how did you manage to get Decidueye in this game? It’s my favorite mon and I’ve seen people with it, but thought it was only a home exclusive

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u/Lysbith_McNaff Dec 03 '22

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u/GroovinChip Dec 03 '22

How can you edit a save file from the Switch though?

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u/Elliot_Fox Dec 03 '22

You'd need a modded switch console to extract save files

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u/San4311 Dec 04 '22

People are just hacking them in. They're grasping at straws now that GF has made their intentions clear about the performance issues.

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u/YaIe Dec 03 '22

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u/FUCKITIMPOSTING Dec 03 '22

Holy crap. I'm even more shocked at the reaction animations. It's so weird seeing pokemon interact.

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u/YaIe Dec 03 '22

You'd love this reaction

Or look at the attention to detail in the mega punch video.

Most Pokemon throw a legit punch that turns into a energy beam/shockwave, but look at the psychic types, most of them don't punch at all, they just throw a energy beam/shockwave, as they use their psychic powers instead of physical strength. Example

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Ah, you see, that game was developed by HAL Laboratory. A company that actually gives a shit.

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u/GrayWing Dec 03 '22

Wasn't Sakurai still there at that time? No wonder.

I'm curious what Pokemon would look like if Smash Bros didnt exist and Sakurai had taken it on as his passion project instead...

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u/CreepyCoach Dec 03 '22

“This guy doesn’t want to release the same game year after year and wants passion put into our games? Fire him!!”

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u/MrGalleom Dec 03 '22

Then we have Zen Headbutt. There is no animation. They just stand and then... the attack conjures itself and flies to the foe.

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u/Leyzr Dec 04 '22

For what skill? For triple arrows he still seems to do a flip kick.

https://youtu.be/9_wkgleWBl0

The first Pokemon on that video

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u/CamoKing3601 Dec 04 '22

that ain't a flip kick

that's a flip while he shoots blades from his feet for no reason

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u/No_Morals Dec 03 '22

Battling in SV sucks all around. Sometimes you have to wait 5 seconds between battle texts like "skiddo woke up!" ... (5 full seconds of nothing) ... "skiddo used growl!" And this happens in every single battle.

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u/I-am-a-me Dec 03 '22

I've been avoiding inflicting status conditions just because of how much they slow down the battles.

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u/potato-of-doom-0 hey look at my pla team! Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 04 '22

ikr?? WHY DO I NEED TO WATCH THROUGH BOTH "<pokemon> became confused!" *AND* "<pokemon> is confused!" IN THE SAME TURN???? OH FOR ARCEUS' SAKE JUST DO ONE OR THE OTHER

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u/waaarg Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 04 '22

We don’t even need either! This is a holdover from the GameBoy, when you needed text for that. There’s no reason that status effects can’t and shouldn’t just be an icon and effects showing that they’re paralyzed, asleep, or whatever, without needing to write it every single turn in plain text.

Look at how Persona 5 does status effects—it gets across just as much information in a fifth the time and without having to write it out every turn.

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u/swizzler Evolve... Why? Dec 03 '22

I think the reason they do it that way is infatuation, confusion, and curse are status effects that go away on switch out and can be had at the same time as another status. That said, they probably should just have a secondary spot for "active slot" status conditions instead of just handling it all in text.

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u/ColourfulToad Dec 04 '22

Yea absolutely. Keep the full word labels for poison etc, then have just circular icons in a list next to this for temporary effects like confusion, charm etc. there is basically zero excuse for this to still be in the game if they care at all about game design and improving the UI.

Honestly the UI is always the most absolutely basic looking thing every game, it’s always changing to random new art styles and in this game it’s worse because with all the text it constantly hides ALL INFORMATION. So many times I get hit and the bar only flashes up for a split second and I don’t know how much health I or the enemy has.

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u/Knight_Raymund Dec 04 '22

This is a holdover from the GameBoy

GF in a nutshell.

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u/sunrayylmao Dec 04 '22

I took Leftovers off my pokemon during the main story because the extra text boxes weren't worth the small amount of HP lol

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u/aaoeu Dec 04 '22

I had to stop giving my iron hands a booster energy for raids because the animation of activating it would usually lead to timing out and skipping the first turn.

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u/RangerPeterF Dec 03 '22

This is why I hate the raid battles. Who thought it was a good idea to do timed battles when everything takes forever? On high level raids I willingly unequip leftovers and don't use status moves because it just takes too long.

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u/Mahanirvana Dec 04 '22

That's even worse because everything desyncs

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u/RangerPeterF Dec 04 '22

Oh the desync is so terrible. Every other battle the tera-pokemons hp is already down and it still gets an attack of.

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u/Kruiii Dec 03 '22

when the titan klawf gets a boost, and it has to do the animation and text for all three of the boosts, instead of putting it all in one animation.

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u/Another_DotDotDot Dec 03 '22

My Aboliva got hit with a dragon tail and it took a full 30 second to Activate its ability, spawn the grassy terrain, return my pokemon, wait, and throw out my pokemon

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u/mysecondaccountanon Dec 04 '22

Multihit moves are so fun to watch, and so are multi hit moves that activate an ability each time, ughhhhhhh

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u/fatalystic Dec 04 '22

Who the fuck removed the Battle Speed setting anyway?

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u/LionNP Dec 04 '22

Wish we could turn off battle animations and have instant text speed

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u/Nevelsforgetmenotorb Dec 04 '22

And to think people wanted this because they hated PLA so much for being different. Like come on y’all, the battles are slow af.

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u/Taco-Edge Dec 03 '22

In a lot of ways, Scarlet and Violet are a downgrade from PLA. I enjoy my game of Violet and everything, but it's sad to see the game is somehow looks worse than the previous game made a year ago

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u/YamiPhoenix11 Dec 03 '22

At least scarlet and violet have picnic orgies.

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u/slothxaxmatic Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 04 '22

I howled when I looked in the basket and found like 11 eggs one day. Edit: I guess 10 is the max so it was probably 10. I was too busy laughing at the amount of kids 3 mons just had at a 5 minute picnic.

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u/San4311 Dec 04 '22

Not to be a know it all but the max is 10 eggs.

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u/CreativeFun228 Dec 04 '22

OMG 🤣🤣🤣☠️

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u/purpldevl Dec 04 '22

I love that the Pokémon don't look like rubber now, but almost everything else is a drop in quality from PL:A

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u/riftrender Dec 03 '22

I also do not care for the current artstyle, it hits the uncanny valley for me.

SwSh and LA artstyle was better, hell I would have accepted the Lets Go art style.

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u/QuestionAxer Dec 03 '22

The let's go art style is arguably the best looking pokemon game out on the Switch right now.

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u/shanatard Dec 03 '22

Yeah you can disagree on all the mechanics and cut content but let's go was CLEAN. It felt like a finished product in terms of graphics

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u/Collier1505 Dec 04 '22

The animations in the overworld were amazing too. The different carrying / following animations.

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u/sunbeak Dec 03 '22

Agreed 100%. So much detail and charm.

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u/ChaosDevilDragon Dec 03 '22

The SFX in let’s go we’re incredible, especially for ghost type moves. They were highly saturated, very cool

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u/DirtiestRock Dec 03 '22

PMD DX would like to know your location.

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u/DeepFriedFear Dec 03 '22

This. This game was overflowing with charm. Especially concerning the art style/graphics.

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u/SpuukBoi Dec 03 '22

I forgot about this game ngl, but I do love its art style. I just wouldn't want that style in a mainline Pokemon game. Just doesn't fit imo.

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u/dWARUDO Dec 04 '22

eh i didnt really like the way pokemon looked in that game

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u/Nemesis233 Dec 03 '22

I'd say the Pokémon models are some of the most positive things in SV

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u/riftrender Dec 03 '22

I mean the people models.

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u/Nemesis233 Dec 03 '22

True those are awful

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u/Filsk Dec 03 '22

I feel like Pokémon models are something they consistently improve on every release

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u/cosmiclatte44 Dec 03 '22

I thought they looked really bad in SW/SH tbh. Definitely not an upgrade on the previous games.

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u/TheWitherBoss876 Golly... Dec 03 '22

I don't mind the models for the player or most major characters. While some do look odd, sometimes more than usual, they generally don't bother me because their designs have personality.

What does bother me are the generic NPCs and generic trainers. Every one I get to look at up close has their face distorted in really off-putting ways or the most ridiculous over-the-top expression. And the line between those is thin and hazy.

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u/Rainbow_Mint *:・゚✧*:・゚✧★ Dec 03 '22

I like the new look overall, but the textures are what throw me off. I feel like the highly-textured clothes and hair clash too much with the anime look.

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u/_Arlotte_ Dec 03 '22

This, it makes it feel weird lol It's like what you'd expect to see in live-action

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u/San4311 Dec 04 '22

What???? Now you're just making things up. The models are amazing. Call the graphics what you want but to go after the models is criminal.

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u/Callinon Dec 03 '22

Be careful there. You seem to be implying that SV necessarily came after PLA when in fact the two games were developed simultaneously by different teams. By the time PLA released, the core design and the vast majority of the assets for SV were already done.

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u/3163560 Dec 03 '22

What a dumb way to make games that is then.

Here's the other thing. From the point of view of the players, the people paying their money to pay the games, SV come about 10 months after PLA.

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u/ar4757 Squirtle Squad Dec 03 '22

A spin-off shouldn’t be better than mainline

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u/splvtoon Dec 03 '22

gamefreak considers PLA to be mainline.

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u/namelessBoyz Dec 03 '22

... then because they're both "mainline" they should have similar levels of effort into them?

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u/GrayWing Dec 03 '22

PLA had the luxury of a simplified battle system, smaller Pokedex, and not being truly open world. Not defending the failures of SV but I can see how PLA was able to be more refined. It's simply a smaller game

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u/RepresentativeNo1006 Dec 03 '22

Same effort, different scale

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u/Vinxian Dec 03 '22

You're right. I feel some crucial people in the "spin-off" team definitely deserve a promotion to the "mainline" team

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

PLA is a mainline game.

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u/Vinxian Dec 03 '22

But not developed by the mainline team because they were working on gen 9. And that's the core of what I said and not what technically is or isn't a mainline game.

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u/megashedinja was it any wonder Dec 03 '22

They got confused about which person made the “spin-off” point, which wasn’t you; it was u/ar4757. Nevertheless, all of these points are correct

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u/repalec Dec 03 '22 Silver

>For some baffling reason, Game Freak has returned to those animations in Scarlet and Violet.

They didn't return, they were never there in the first place; Scarlet/Violet and Legends Arceus were developed side by side, not together. That's why a lot of QOL improvements PLA implemented such as alternate evolution methods for trade-evo Pokemon weren't brought forward into SV.

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u/IzIzzoIz Dec 03 '22

This is the ultimate truth. Most people don't seem to understand this.

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u/EMateos Dec 04 '22

Some people really think Game Freak made SV in 10 months, lol.

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u/_deltaVelocity_ Y'ever just wanna delete the universe Dec 04 '22

Feels like it though, lol.

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u/dWARUDO Dec 04 '22

more like refuse to understand lol

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u/TenorHorn Dec 04 '22

I don’t understand how they were able to develop so many improvements simultaneously and not translate them to SV. Or even all the other improvements from previous generations…. It’s like they’re starting from scratch every time.

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u/Kinggakman Dec 04 '22

PLA was meant to be a single player game. The main games will never be getting rid of trade evolutions.

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u/repalec Dec 04 '22

I'm aware, I was just citing it as an example of a feature PLA implemented that SV didn't.

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u/SergioZen25 Dec 03 '22

That's just one of the series problems, one step forward, two steps back.

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u/nick2473got Dec 03 '22

If it were only 2 steps back I might be able to live with it. Same if it were actually a full step forward.

As it is I feel like it's more like half a step forward and 5 steps back.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

I also think the attacks where they shoot fire and stuff are worse. They just look less cool. Forgot to mention that.

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u/c_will Dec 03 '22

Some of the animations in this game feel like they're worse than even in Sword/Shield. Earthquake is a perfect example. It's just a pile of rocks/dirt that appears under the Pokemon in S/V. It looks awful.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

[deleted]

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u/swizzler Evolve... Why? Dec 03 '22

100% this, Seems like a lot of work went into the dynamic battle scene tech, I'm curious if the PLA and S/V teams shared the same code, or if they're two independently developed systems. Knowing how isolated their A and B teams have been in the past, i'd guess the latter.

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u/DarthOmix Get hype Ghost-Types Dec 04 '22

By GameFreak's own timetable, PLA started development before SV by several months, so they probably didn't have much of any crossover until PLA wrapped and staff could assist with polish if they weren't shoved onto another project.

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u/SpuukBoi Dec 03 '22

Like the other person said, it's kinda hard to do Earthquake in a game where battles can take place on any terrain. How would they animate it if you're on a slope, for example? The simple animation just works better for this.

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u/Xgio Dec 03 '22

I have no idea hoe to fix it and I understand why it is this way. I liked it like they did in XD and colosseum. Thats still my favorite earthquake animation.

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u/DragoSphere Sleep is for th-zzzz Dec 03 '22

Shake the whole screen and add rumbling rock/dust particles like they do in the anime? I'm sure they could figure it out

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u/Nothinkonlygrow Dec 04 '22

I don’t think earthquake has actually ever been used in the anime, same thing with surf (with exception of Pokémon origins)

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u/MisirterE Less of a dragon than an apple Dec 04 '22

It has been used in the past. In fact, the fact that it was used is actually the reason why it is no longer used.

There are 7 aired episodes where the move Earthquake is used, all of which between Johto and Hoenn. There was supposed to be an 8th, but there happened to be a real earthquake about 2 weeks before that episode was supposed to air, so they didn't air it. Ever. And they never used the move again to avoid something like that happening again. But they did use it before then.

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u/BlueEmeraldX Dec 03 '22

Could also send out a shockwave ring like in Stadium.

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u/numberonebarista Dec 03 '22

Compare flamethrower in PLA to flamethrower in SV. The difference is night and day. Flamethrower in PLA is the coolest animation for that move ever and in SV the flames don’t look like one continuous stream of fire and it looks cartoony compared to PLA.

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u/cass314 Dec 03 '22

I'm currently replaying XD Gale of Darkness, and, while it's obviously Gamecube graphics, a lot of those animations are way more dynamic and interesting than GF's modern ones.

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u/LuttLuck007 Galvantula Stan Dec 03 '22

I think its important to remmember that Arcues had significantly less moves than S/V does. Is that a valid excuse? No its lame as hell, but probably the reason.

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u/ChadPiplup Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

There’s a PS2 game that’s called Yugioh Duelist of the Roses that released in 2001. I remembered it randomly the other day and looked it up on YouTube, there is nearly 800 exactly 853 monster cards that all have 3D models with unique entrance, attack, death, & victory animations.

It is so insane to me that they just refuse to put in the effort that Pokémon games deserve in 2022. As they’re making unbelievable amounts of money.

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u/blueguy211 Dec 03 '22

man that game goes hard wish they made a remastered version for the ps5 or pc

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u/Caelleon Dec 03 '22

I get what you're saying, but that's also 4 animations for 800 monsters compared to potentially double, if not triple per 'mon (physical attack, special attack, stat changer, signature attack, victory animation, hurt animation, defeat animation, entrance animation, run animation, swim animation for some, special land animation for some fish 'mon).

Not saying we don't deserve more, we do, but it's not as simple as "this game with less to animate had more therefore we should have more". You're not comparing like for like

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u/Vryk0lakas Dec 03 '22

Yeah, but it’s also 20 years later. It’s not like we don’t have the memory or processing power for it

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u/Fenrirr Let's Snuggle Forever! Dec 03 '22

The technology for video games has advanced, but not so much that you can supplant artists, riggers, animators, and the likes with some sort of "auto-pokemon generator". Its like saying paint brushes in 2022 should be able to paint on their own.

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u/nospimi99 Cyndaquil Dec 04 '22

That’s true but not only has the technology improved, but the experience of a team should improve too. The team has nearly exclusively worked on one IP for 25 years. They should have become pros when it comes to working on making these games and optimizing wherever they can. I’d say it’s less like saying paint brushes in 2022 should paint in their own, but more it’s fair to expect people who have been painting in the exact same style for 25 years to be much more skilled and efficient at it.

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u/MadManMax55 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

It's not a technical problem, it's a manpower one. Every new animation type you add can't just be done once and automatically applied to every Pokemon. You're basically adding 800 new unique animations that have to be made "by hand". Even with a lot of shortcuts, that's a huge increase in labor costs and project time just for a bit more polish.

Even if you were to give Gamefreak more time and resources to work on the games, there are plenty of problems in need of fixing or mechanics to add that would be prioritized over animations.

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u/malfurionpre Dec 03 '22

huge increase in labor costs and project time just for a bit more polish.

Oh no, how will the literal biggest license to ever exist be able to afford some more staffing

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u/MrPokeGamer Dec 03 '22

Oh no, the poor company! It's not like their franchise is the most profitable one in the world and they can hire a ton of animators!

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u/NRG1122 Dec 03 '22

There’s also individual walking and running animations on the ground and in the air for any Pokémon that flies, and the special tired, sleep, and happy animations that every Pokémon has that can play when in the overworld or at picnics.

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u/Adorable_Octopus Dec 03 '22

Significantly less is probably under selling it. PLA only had around a fifth of all moves that existed prior to PLA (and around 24 new attacks, most of which are signature moves).

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u/SeitHater Dec 03 '22

they at least could have kept most of the PLA animations however, I wouldn't mind after all they keep reusing pokemon models from X and Y and saying they are new

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u/chiptunesoprano Dec 03 '22

To be fair scarlet and violet do seem to have new models. Lower polycount but more detail for things like eyes and mouths.

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u/TheMerfox Dec 03 '22

They made those in Legends Arceus. What they updated in SV are the textures.

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u/ImperfectWolf Dec 03 '22

L:A had a very reduced pokedex, there's pokemon available in S/V that weren't in L:A at all, they would have needed to do those ones at the very least

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u/LegendarySuperShaggy Dec 03 '22

While legends Arceus is an older game, SV and PLA were developed mostly in tandem, not one after the other barring the very last portion of SV's dev cycle. So another thing is that they likely couldn't take the move animations for SV.

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u/Logondo Dec 03 '22

Dexit was suppose to be GF's excuse for adding better animations and such.

"There's less Pokemon so we can put more effort into the ones we DID keep"...

Except they didn't. We got less Pokemon and nothing out of it.

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u/Raichu4u Dec 03 '22

It's almost as the Dexit people were right and models and Pokemon were cut due to pure incompetency instead of any promised "trade offs".

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u/Rodents210 Dec 03 '22 edited Dec 03 '22

We had evidence that it was a lie before it was even said, but people were convinced everything in major gameplay demonstrations weeks before the game went gold were just placeholders and would all be replaced in the final version. When they were shown to be wrong on release, the defenders’ goalpoasts shot away like Team Rocket, as they always do.

One thing that this fanbase needs to get straight, even if you feel a compulsion to defend the series no matter what, is that Junichi Masuda is a liar. He makes up whatever he thinks will get people off his back for unpopular decisions. They are never true, usually provably false when he says them, but he doesn’t care. He is not an honest person and his words aren’t worth the time spent transcribing them. Kids with phones was a lie. Dexit was a lie. It’s always a lie.

The decisions were never going to be well-received no matter what excuse was given. Honesty at the very least would be respected. Instead Game Freak make themselves look like a lot of charlatans.

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u/Kiosade Dec 03 '22

I heard he quit, so hopefully we won’t be lied to anymore…

…who am I kidding, of course the next guy will lie, too.

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u/Rodents210 Dec 03 '22

He is no longer directing games, but that just means he isn't in charge of the games on paper. He is still at Game Freak and he's had a reputation as a micromanager since Gen 3 (it's one of the reasons the teams have remained far too small to feasibly produce these games to a high degree of quality; but if the teams are larger it's harder to micromanage) so I would be shocked if he wasn't still exerting a lot of influence over the day-to-day. Supposedly the guy he chose to succeed him as director also shares his managerial philosophy, and anyone familiar with office politics in general can tell you that probably means he's still acting as a major yes-man and potentially just providing a layer of abstraction over Masuda's continued influence. That or he is just so similar to Masuda himself that Masuda was comfortable stepping back a bit, which ultimately would have the same result. We realistically will never know for sure.

Either way, even if he makes zero decisions these days, he is still comfortable telling obvious lies about the rationale behind decisions at Game Freak, and that's bad enough.

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u/Neirchill Dec 03 '22

Micromanagers are literally the worst. Bad for business as a whole, bad for employees, no one wins.

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u/pimpmayor Dec 03 '22

The pokemon all look really good, have unique overworked animations and behaviour patterns (sleeping, running etc)

Wild pokemon exhibit behaviours based on their pokedex entries or in game lore (Toedscool watcheing trees then sprinting away on its cute little legs)

These are actual improvements to pokemon.

Fancy animations arent even particularly noticeable past very early on, are quite annoying when you're grinding/training, and a massive technical hurdle when your battles can take place on any elevation and terrain. Battle animations also aren't really improvements to Pokemon either, they're visual improvements to battles.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

But even the moves that did exist in Legends look worse in SV. Just look at Gyarados’s Aqua Tail for instance. In Legends Gyarados uses it’s actual tail to hit the opponent, in SV it just summons a pathetic looking water tail for no good reason

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u/jfray81 Dec 03 '22

That what they did for sword and shield and look the resultat of the animations…

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u/nokrow889 Dec 03 '22

legends isnt even a full year old, why do people think this game was made AFTER they released it....it was clearly being worked on at the same time so clearly not everything from legends would be the same in this game

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u/MindSteve Dec 03 '22

Probably because they are making multiple games at the same time to get them out the door faster, so they don't carry forward improvements from one game to the next. It's only gonna get better if they space out their releases.

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u/SuperDuperSkateCrew Dec 03 '22

I’ve come to the conclusion that I like Legends Arceus a lot more than S/V. Performance issues aside I just prefer most aspects of it over S/V.

They coulda done a straight copy paste of most of the gameplay mechanics and I would’ve been happy. It might seem small but I really miss being able to run around during a battle, my character being able to jump/sprint/dodge, having the power to choose when I want to evolve a Pokémon rather than it being automatic, or even the animation of the Pokémon evolving looked way better.

I’m enjoying S/V but more often than not it just makes me want to go back and play Legends Arceus.

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u/BlueEmeraldX Dec 03 '22

I greatly prefer having wild Pokémon attack you outside of battle, too. We've had shades of this in the games' stories already (Red/Blue, Ruby/Sapphire, Diamond/Pearl, Sun/Moon), but it just makes sense to me, and it makes wild encounters a more important part of the game. In S/V or SW/SH they're either optional or accidental, but in PLA sometimes you're doing it to defend yourself.

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u/3163560 Dec 03 '22

This is it. All SV needed to be was Arceus 2 with new mons, moves, abilities etc and the proper battle system in place.

If what people are saying is true both games being made from scratch by separate teams, that is by far one of the dumbest ways to make these games. So much double handling.

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u/Antique-Purple-Axe Dec 04 '22

and an interconnected world instead of segmented zones

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u/PoorLittleGoat Dec 04 '22

People don’t seem to understand that PLA and S/V were in development at the same time.

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u/martinsdudek Dec 03 '22

Arceus and SV were made at the same time. Any improvement seen in Arceus won’t be added to the main series until the next games.

These games aren’t well made, but I don’t know why we have to say the same things over and over again.

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u/ImperfectWolf Dec 03 '22

I think the loss of frostbite as a status effect was the worst, that was actually a really positive change, way better than freeze. Same as a burn but hits special attack instead, that was great for balance. Now we're back to the usual "physical attackers can be crippled easily while special attackers laugh at them"

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u/martinsdudek Dec 03 '22

Oh I totally agree. I hope frostbite is added as soon as possible.

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u/7strikes Dec 03 '22

I just remembered... in the trailers somewhere, there was footage of a Farigiraf attacking while apparently asleep (Zz's above the head), leading people to think that maybe Legends' "drowsy" status would be replacing sleep in S/V as well. What was up with that, I wonder?

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u/waylaidwanderer Dec 03 '22

Using a move like Sleep Talk maybe?

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u/BushyBrowz Dec 03 '22

I think the thing that bugs me about this thread is it feels disingenuous. Everyone knew Arceus was a major departure from the traditional style. I guess there were people that were thinking that the core series was going to take that direction, but I feel like logically there was no way Gen 9 was going to emulate that style so quickly. Especially not for a game that dropped the SAME YEAR.

I’m surprised Gen 9 took as much from Arceus as it did tbh. And I think the result speaks for itself. They needed more development time.

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u/shiki-ouji Dec 03 '22

Because a lot of people just don't understand how game development works

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u/Mason11987 Dec 03 '22

“Why do we have to remind you why you should expect garbage?”

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u/killtr0city Dec 03 '22

Battle animations are on par with Pokemon Stadium and pale in comparison to Colleseum

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Honestly saying their on par with Stadium is up for debate. They put a lot more care into Stadium, doing things like making Blastoise’s Hydro Pump shoot out both it’s canons, and giving every Pokémon a unique kicking animation, even though most of them only learned one kicking move, Mega Kick

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u/hammondismydaddy Dec 03 '22

The worst part is that it is such a simple thing to do animation-wise. PLA didn’t even have a separate charge animation. It was literally just the mon moving to the other mon holding its attack animation. It is simply a matter of moving an axis up. It would take no time whatsoever to implement.

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u/_Electro5_ Dec 03 '22

It isn’t a “downgrade” because the games were being developed at the same time by two different teams. They can’t reuse stuff from PLA because that game was still being made when most of the core work on SV was being done.

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u/dragonnation5523 Dec 03 '22

That's so weird to me, I've also noticed they didn't reuse the legends arceus evolution animation. I know pla had less moves, but whats the excuse for not at least reusing the arceus animations? Do they really care that much about there being a discrepancy between those and the rest of the ported sword/shield animations?

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u/AAAAAA_13 Dec 03 '22

This game was made alongside Arceus, not after it. At least, that's what I've been told. They didn't have time to receive feedback and reuse the good parts of Arceus

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u/VetProf RIP Dark Void Dec 03 '22

The Legends: Arceus evolution animation felt like something they made specifically for that game to better fit its wilder atmosphere, so I think it's understandable why they didn't bring it back for the regular mainline games. But yeah, the loss of everything else is a shame.

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u/SSjGRaj Dec 03 '22

Do they really care that much

The problem is that they don't care at all.

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u/DarkMarxSoul always choose fire except litten Dec 03 '22

That's not true, they obviously care. They're just stuck in a web of people offloading responsibility onto other people, which creates a scenario where the games don't have enough time to bake. The fact that GF puts genuine effort into figuring out how to change how the series plays, and tons of effort into representing the cultures of the countries the regions are based off of, shows that they care.

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u/JustDebbie Dec 03 '22

Design wise, they're solid. On the technical side, they need some help. If they could get some more experienced programmers and 3D artists in there, and more time to get things done, the results would be excellent.

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u/SimplyNot0 Dec 03 '22

To be fair the whole game is a downgrade, lots of cool stuff about in the game but without the open world catching outbreaks are a pain. Just one example

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u/xChris777 Dec 03 '22

I miss PLA manual catching so badly, they should done it for weak Pokemon and Pokemon you sneak up on, with battles required for stronger-than-your-party Pokemon and similarly leveled ones you didn't sneak up on.

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u/nightfire36 I don't know what to put here. Dec 03 '22

Could be by badge. "Congrats, you got the first badge! You can now try to catch pokemon up to level 10 without battling."

Though, I will say that Arceus made it important to catch a ton on random pokemon. It's not important at all in SV, and pokeballs were basically free in PLA. Like, you collect the materials just by playing the game and chucking your pokemon at stuff. That doesn't work in SV.

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u/xChris777 Dec 03 '22

I don't think the "catching tons of each Pokemon" thing should be part of the mainline series (maybe a side quest for a few Pokemon at most) but I just want the manual catching for the immersion - same with moving around during battles and stuff. I don't mind if it's only possible for some Pokemon you encounter, or preferably if you have to battle and weaken them before manual catching.

If they limited it in that way and you didn't have to catch each Pokemon over and over again, then the Pokeball thing you mentioned wouldn't be an issue either.

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u/nightfire36 I don't know what to put here. Dec 03 '22

Aiming pokeballs in PLA was some of the most fun I've had in pokemon, but I just don't see how it works in a game where you're realistically only catching 400 pokemon (other than grinding for stats/abilities).

I wish we could aim for encounters. It's so annoying to sneak up behind something only for the game to pick something else to hit, and the focus on target with ZL only works when you're on top of it.

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u/xChris777 Dec 03 '22

Why wouldn't it work though? The number of Pokemon caught doesn't matter as long as you make it so that some Pokemon have to be battled first before catching (higher level ones and maybe some specially marked strong Pokemon with custom movesets or something like that). It's more about the immersion, selling the idea that you're a trainer in a world of Pokemon and making it feel like you're actually carrying out the actions. That jump forward in PLA was massive for the franchise and I don't see how they could make future mainline games without it - it feels like they're finally approaching the feeling of actually being like Ash in the anime back in '96, when tech limitations didn't allow the games to mirror the experience of the show, despite being amazing games still.

Plus like you said it would be better for players who grind catch for things like stats/abilities etc. too.

And yeah, you could also have the PLA "throw your pokemon's pokeball manually to start the battle" mechanic too!

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u/userseven Dec 03 '22

Almost everything in S/V Is a downgrade from PLA.

They kept the move relearner built in but it's clunky compared to PLA.

PLA has better graphics and performance for most part.

Pokemon can't evolve during auto battle? Man PLA Pokemon evolve when you want system would solve that.

Targeting and throwing pokeballs is janky compared to PLA man I could snipe with the feather balls.

Better camera angles in PLA. I was using the big electric bird and he was so big during a fixed camera fight he was invisible the whole match.

Pokemon management so much easier too with switching during battle and easier item usage.

Anyways just my opinion.

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u/a_mimsy_borogove Dec 03 '22

I think it's because PLA and S/V were both developed simultaneously. PLA was meant to be more experimental, while S/V was meant to be more like a typical mainline game. Hopefully the next generation will actually use all the good stuff developed for PLA.

I'm enjoying S/V a lot, but from a technical point of view PLA is definitely better.

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u/eleventy4 Dec 03 '22

And they took away Switch/Set mode too.

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u/Black_Ironic Dec 03 '22

How is move relearner works in this game, also I'm glad I found another person who find the camera in PLA is much much better than SV.

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u/Flip122 Dec 03 '22

Why is stealth rock, just brown spikes that land on the ground.

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u/swiftlight12367 Dec 03 '22

I miss only throwing balls to catch them.

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u/Empty_Lemon_3939 Dec 03 '22

If you told me S/V came out before PLA I would believe you because of the amount of great features from PLA that were removed from SV

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u/dbzrox Dec 03 '22

PLA was it’s own thing. I knew people were gonna be disappointed when people really think pokemon was gonna go 1 version and not require trading. SV is a continuation of swsh

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u/gorgonfish Dec 03 '22

They weren't removed from SV, PLA was made by a different team than SV so features were never in Gen 9 in the first place. We might see some of those features in DLC, maybe. This is the reason why Pokemon followed you in Let's Go, but that feature wasn't in S/Sh until the DLC even though the game came after Let's Go. Different teams.

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u/[deleted] Dec 03 '22

Honestly, playing S/V after PLA feels like such a massive downgrade in almost every aspect.

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u/Lv9ai Dec 03 '22

Sorry, proper battle animations was a 1-time gimmick

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u/Iron_Wolf123 Thunderstruck!!! Dec 04 '22

I wish the multi-attack moves weren't slow.

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u/chaarziz Dec 03 '22

It's not a choice, they were developed at the same time, completely separately.

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u/BasilNight Dec 03 '22

Nearly everything is a downgrade in relation to Legends Arceus if we're talking battling wise

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u/Hoosteen_juju003 Dec 03 '22

Damn, what a daring post

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u/JaxxisR Dec 03 '22

For real. GameFreak needs to start playing PLA so they will know what a good Pokémon game is supposed to feel like.

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u/Svartdraken Dec 03 '22

Everything was a downgrade. Literally everything. The performance, the way the environment loads in the distance, the resolution and frame rate, the antialiasing.

And then there’s more practical stuff, like better pokeball aiming mechanics, better ground interaction, better climbing and movement in general.

It’s not GameFreak’s fault, I know, but even though I’m having fun with Violet, I’d love to play Legends once again

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