r/pokemon Nov 24 '22 Timeless Beauty 1 All-Seeing Upvote 1 Bravo! 1 Helpful 7 Wholesome 1 Take My Energy 4 Rocket Like 1 Helpful (Pro) 1 Silver 5 Gold 1

S/V Is Not A Proof Of Concept Or A Test Discussion / Venting

It's just unfinished. Gen 8 was a "test." Legends: Arceus was a "test." How many "test" games do they get to make before we're allowed to criticize Pokémon for being lazy and/or greedy?

You are free to like the game, but others are free to dislike it. Their expectations were high for the first fully open-world Pokémon game. And before anyone mentions it- no, the bar isn't lower. At least, it shouldn't be. I refuse to lower it, and so do others. If your expectations are lower, and you're happy that way, more power to you, but this is how we feel when we criticize them. They have billions of dollars. This is unacceptable for any other large company, so why isn't it seen that way for them? They can take more time if they need to, they just choose not to. Whether it's the devs or the investors or Nintendo or Pokémon Company or whatever, someone is messing up.

Edit: Replaced GF with "Pokémon." I don't know whether GF is to blame or not and neither do you, but for speculation's sake I'll just generalize it. Don't want to blame the wrong group.

Edit 2: Made the post less subjective. Thanks for pointing that out everyone. I'm not looking to start fights :)

Edit 3: Please read the post carefully. I am not saying GF is lazy or GF is to blame, please stop telling me how bad TPC is and how poor GF is given tight deadlines. We all know the narrative. That's not at all what the post is about. I use the term lazy to refer to the individual or group that decided to publish this game in its state. Whether or not GameFreak is amazing or trying their best is irrelevant, I'm not specifically calling them out here. Please stop arguing against something I'm not even claiming. I thought edit 1 addressed this. :)

Edit 4: Put quotations around all instances of "test" in the beginning because too many people thought I was literally calling those games a test lol

Edit 5: I am a programmer. For video games. As in, I program video games. Please stop commenting that I have no knowledge of game development lol, that's such a weird assumption to make by someone who probably doesn't have experience themselves.

18.3k Upvotes

7.5k

u/yiggaman Nov 24 '22

If it's 59.99 it's not a test. The one piece is real

1.1k

u/king_of_satire Nov 24 '22

But can the cost get much higher?

530

u/WZLemon Nov 24 '22 Plus One

it’s already so high… woooooooooahhhhhh.

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u/Scarf_Darmanitan Nov 24 '22

YOHOHO HE TOOK A BITE OF GUMGUM

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u/thesequimkid Nov 24 '22

What is the will of D? What is the D clan?

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u/Naniteman77 I sense your Doom Nov 24 '22

Can we get much higher?

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u/Mart1n192 Nov 24 '22

Can't wait for the $70 pokemon game

56

u/TidusJames Nov 24 '22

Sword and shield had dlc…

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u/MasonTheChef Nov 24 '22

DLC will be out soon.

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u/xXPawzXx Nov 24 '22

so hiiiiiiigghhhhhhh ((((please dont let it get higher i already cant afford $60 games have mercy)))))

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

😭 in canada your 60$ games are 90$

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u/Strict-Expression-91 Nov 24 '22

In Brazil the game is more than 300 R$, this is 1/4 of our minimum salary.

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

i-....... thats insane

7

u/Zeenchi Nov 24 '22

You're not kidding. Might as well be spending your life's savings.

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u/BGTheHoff Nov 24 '22

Its already on sale here in germany. 49,99€

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

ALREADY ON SALE- 😫 im in agony

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u/comosedicewaterbed Nov 24 '22

I fantasize bout this back in Celadon

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u/tnuggetlad Nov 25 '22

The one piece is real

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

its 90$ for canadians

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u/WhereTheShadowsLieZX Nov 24 '22

For anyone wondering that works out to about $68 USD.

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

yeah, thats how much the game is with tax

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u/FordFoundation Nov 24 '22

Is that including the tax because they are $80 in Canada but become $90 with tax.

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u/lumpybags Nov 24 '22

i always include tax, something canada should really get on

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u/dkl65 Nov 24 '22

I’m in Ontario and it is $80 before tax, $90.40 after 13% tax.

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u/Rishloos Nov 24 '22

The CAD/US exchange rate sucks ass. I'm always thrilled when I place an online order and it's in something like AUD, since the difference is almost negligible.

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u/cheekyweelogan Nov 25 '22

Back when I started my American bf (now husband) the parity was like 1:1 and it was insane just going to buy games in the US that were like 30-40$ in the US and 60$ in Canada. It was bad for the Canadian economy or exports or something but as a traveling consumer, it was sick.

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u/Simalf Nov 24 '22

Can we get much higher?

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u/Smoke-Beard Nov 24 '22

Can we get much higher?

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u/kylekunfox Nov 25 '22

Can you explain the Onepiece reference? I see it randomly from time to time and I don't understand why people randomly say it.

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u/king_of_satire Nov 25 '22

Lessons in meme culture did a video on it. It's honestly too esoteric for me to explain

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u/KraftDMac Nov 25 '22

The one piece is real!

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u/Nyme_Jeff Nov 24 '22

Lets not forget about the pricey dlc just to get some few new pokemon and access to old ones

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u/nelson64 Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

Fact of the matter is…these games need to cook for longer and probably be developed by Nintendo EAD. The reason you get games as polished as BOTW or SMO is because they take 5-7 years to develop while Pokemon games only take 2-3.

I was hoping with all the spin-off games that that would mean the mainline games would have more development time…but alas we still get a new gen every 3 years.

Ideally it’d be great if we get something like Legends or Let’s Go or BDSP or Detective Pikachu, etc etc every 1-2 years and then the main new gen games come every 5-6.

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u/Thousand_Eyes Ramona bby Nov 25 '22

It's not only that

GF dev turnover is insanely high. It's not impossible for it to be an entirely different team game to game

People are all complaining about the devs being lazy when they're just inexperienced and GF doesn't do anything to incentivize the devs to stay

Give them money, give them time and you will get a good product

Fuck the higher ups don't attack the fresh meat they keep hiring

168

u/improbsable Nov 25 '22

I’m guessing they’re burning out because they have to crank out incredibly involved games super fast. The Pokémon Company has the money. They should just hire more people if they want to keep their current schedule

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u/ANGLVD3TH Nov 25 '22

They have. Legends was the first game made by their new team of newer devs. Apparently this team is supposed to be the "young blood," hopefully when they get a crqck at a mainline game they mix things up.

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u/Wolvenna Nov 25 '22

Hopefully they bring something more polished than PLA when/if they do. As much as I enjoyed the game there were quite a few glaring issues that are difficult to ignore.

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u/C1-10PTHX1138 Nov 25 '22

This is what happened for Sonic frontiers and it paid off, best sonic game as they waited 5 years after Sonic Forces instead of the 3 year cycle.

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u/CoolMintMC Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

•#EndYearlyPokemon

(I made this hashtag a few years ago because the games are being rushed, unfinished & not given enough development time to actually ship a "complete" game anymore. I just want to spread the message to raise awareness for genuine Pokémon fans who have been shit on by The Pokémon Company corporate higher-ups poor decision making & callousness.)

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u/Recinege Nov 25 '22

We don't even need to end it, we just need them to have multiple teams working on different games five years apart, and for those games to actually have direct interactivity. And, of course, every new game should retroactively add more to the previous games' National Dex if GF is actually struggling to keep pace with updating models.

Something like:

  • Mainline game: normal Pokemon gameplay & design
  • Double battle game: more like the Colosseum and XD titles, with minimal emphasis on wild battles, featuring almost entirely older Pokemon that weren't part of the mainline game.
  • Stadium game: The definitive battling game of the generation, allowing players to beat different stadiums in exchange for points that can be spent on TMs, TRs, Rare Candies, vitamins, mints, bottle caps, unlocking egg moves or hidden abilities, special event Mons - basically being the most efficient way to build up a team, at the expense of having no real gameplay beyond the stadium battles & minigames. Challenges come in two tiers - stadium style like Stadium 1 & 2, with straightforward battles against reasonably tough foes but not perfect IVs & EVs & hold items, and frontier style which basically has every best aspect of every Battle Frontier ever, awarding many more points.
  • Remake: of an older game, done using the mainline game's engine.
  • Legends: the open world game of the generation, with more focus on catching than on trainer battles.

Sprinkle in some Let's Go and Mystery Dungeon games here and there, and it's all a recipe for a very sustainable release schedule that always keeps the generation going strong and avoids the stagnation concerns because there's a ton of room to experiment as each style develops further in its own unique direction.

Also, they're Pokemon games - so they'd sell like fucking crazy no matter what. It's not as if Game Freak wouldn't profit off the outsourcing and/or creation of new, separate teams, as long as it meant every holiday season had its own Pokemon game.

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u/OGDYLO Nov 24 '22

Pokémon is the most profitable, not just gaming, but media franchise in the world. It’s above marvel, Star Wars, all Disney franchises, Harry Potter, COD, Dragon Ball, etc. There’s no excuse. We deserve far better. There’s hardly a difference/improvement from legends arceus and that’s just sad.

There is no excuse why smaller funded developers/games look and run way better ranging from 1-10 years ago than a 2022 Pokémon game.

It’s just sad that pokemon is the epitome of what’s wrong with the gaming industry. The peak example of corporations chasing profit over innovation.

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u/SweelFor- Nov 25 '22

There’s hardly a difference/improvement from legends arceus

No no no, there is a difference, it looks a lot worse.

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u/Raphe9000 Nov 24 '22

It is most definitely an ongoing test:

"How half-baked can we deliver a game before our profits start to dip?"

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u/azurleaf Nov 24 '22

Problem is, profits will never dip. People will always buy Pokemon cuz it's Pokemon. Just something they always buy every holiday season, like a Christmas tree.

740

u/thenotjoe Nov 24 '22

Generation XIV: Pokémon Ranch and Pokémon Italian. Theyre just a static jpeg of Charizard, but sometimes they’re shiny!

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u/KogaHarine Nov 24 '22

Oh Pokemon Ranch... Miss those days...

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u/PuzzlePiece90 Nov 24 '22

Those games are underrated AF. People just liked hating on the idea of a static jpeg so their minds were already made up before they even played it.

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u/KogaHarine Nov 25 '22

It was one of the few wiiware games that was actually worth playing, especially cause it had a legitimate way to get Mew back then.

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u/PuzzlePiece90 Nov 25 '22

I just realized the “miss those days” wasn’t a sarcastic jab at fans looking at older games with rose tinted glasses and they weren’t just continuing the hypothetical games that had a single Charizard jpeg.

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u/Hollywoodrok12 Nov 24 '22

Pokémon R and Pokémon G: a single pixel of their version’s color. A 1/4096 chance it’s a blue pixel but no because they removed shines this time.

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u/thenotjoe Nov 24 '22

$70 each, plus $40 dlc that adds a second pixel, but a glitch causes it to not appear.

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u/ACABincludingYourDad Nov 25 '22

It’s a bug not a feature! I like the new minimalist approach!

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u/Employ-Radiant Nov 24 '22

I can already see the reviews : Yeah this game might be just a static jpeg of a Charizard and nothing else but at least I enjoyed it! 8/10

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u/WhatsYourThesis Nov 24 '22

3rd version would obv Pokemon Balsamic Vinaigrette

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u/thatJainaGirl "Fun to use? Better ban it." - Smogon Nov 25 '22

Sony announced that God of War Ragnarok was the fastest selling Sony game ever, at 5.1 million copies. Pokemon hit 10 million today.

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u/CumBubbleFarts Nov 25 '22

I’ve been an avid fan of the games since the first gen in the 90s. I’ve owned every game through the 3ds, gen vii? US/UM.

I felt like they did such a good job maintaining compatibility, being able to move Pokémon forward every generation, trying new things like megas and trials. I thought some of the online features were cool, like the gen vi post game ranch place where you could catch rare/high iv/hidden ability Pokémon. The games were always super formulaic, they weren’t like superb storytelling or anything, they were just fun RPGs with a focus on collecting and they made small iterative improvements generation to generation. That was enough for me.

Not having all of the Pokémon available in sword and shield kind of made me sad. I told myself I would buy it and never did, and after seeing the reaction after a couple of months I never felt compelled to actually purchase it. I said the same thing this generation, I’ll buy it. After seeing the reaction I don’t think I will.

Luckily I still have my 3ds so I can scratch that itch when I want to.

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u/Hofstee Nov 25 '22

Legends Arceus shares many of the traits that make SV refreshing, while being more polished overall. If you don't mind playing and treating it as a side game then you could play PLA to see if you're a fan of the direction things are going.

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u/Loch32 Nov 25 '22

How often do you buy Christmas trees? I've had the same one for like 8 years

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u/ReturnOfTheMagiPGo Nov 25 '22

If you reuse a real tree (not a plastic one) every year, then more power to you.

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u/Loch32 Nov 25 '22

Oh yeah forgot people used actual trees as Christmas trees.

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u/Goosechumps Nov 24 '22

Pokémon is simply in the same column as Fifa, CoD, etc. They're franchises so huge that chunks of the playerbase buys every new entry. Then a another portion will buy one every few years to see if anything improves.

Before Arceus I hadn't bought a Pokémon game since ORAS. By the sounds of the new one I'll be out for a while again.

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u/Future-Engineering68 Nov 25 '22

Bro I came back after 10 years(last games played were BW2), was a bit thrown off by megas in x and y and then sun and moon had no gyms..... cool on pokemon for a bit, loved arceus, and I'm enjoying violet but it seems like a step back from arceus

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u/parisiraparis Nov 24 '22

Foreal. The test is not the game, it’s the audience.

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u/wummmyslide Nov 24 '22

It's not a test; they know the answer to that question. The critics here are a minority, and people will continue to buy the games for the Pokemon name and the newest neat little creatures

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u/Raphe9000 Nov 24 '22

Well of course they know that they can deliver a half-baked game and make profits off it; I think they've known that since X and Y. The fact that they keep going for a new low is what I believe to be them testing just how far down they can push the bar.

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u/m4fox90 Nov 24 '22

Every day you see posts in here: “yeah I know it runs at 2 FPS and the draw distance is 6 inches but it’s a lot of fun!” Like fuck man stop buying this shit

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u/Thaxagoodname Nov 24 '22

I saw someone yesterday legitimately defend the lack of postgame by saying just play it twice. We really are screwed forever.

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u/parisiraparis Nov 24 '22

Someone replied to me in a comment saying “this game is better than SWSH and PLA because the draw distance is farther and there’s more areas” and it’s like dude the areas look like shit and the draw distance doesn’t mean a god damn thing if what I’m looking at sucks

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u/ArguesWithZombies Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

the absolout state of the franchise eh. what a joke. there comes a point when people need to accept GF are taking them for a ride. a $60 ride...twice + dlc. lol.

BOTW came out 5 7 years ago, on this same console. im amazed how people can defend this from a company that is arugably the largest and richest media franchise in the world. windwaker came out 20 years ago and looks better. XD

im reading people saying its a janky mess but still fun. okay enjoy your janky mess. nintendo and gf will never try when people are happy to [insert take all my money meme]

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u/alex494 Nov 24 '22

Yeah like:

We're 5 games into the Switch era.

We're ten years into 3D games.

We're a quarter of a fucking century into the franchise as a whole.

We're a bit past baby steps in the right direction guys. At this point they're just incompetent.

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u/GuyWithNoName22 Nov 24 '22

I feel like it's more they know they can get away with it. Don't get me wrong, it's not acceptable. And all the excuses I keep seeing are wild.

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u/Alexap30 Nov 25 '22

This is the answer.

-So much scolding.

-10 million units, on opening.

What's the incentive for them to change? Anything they do, they get away with it, because profits are good. And as long as numbers are good, no upper level management will complain or will look into things. And even then, they probably threaten with firing rather than looking into things. 🤷‍♂️

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u/blacksheep998 Nov 25 '22

Exactly.

I almost can't even blame them at this point. If every project I turned in got an A no matter how much or how little effort I put in, I'm positive that the quality of my work would slip as time went on as well.

It's on the fans at this point.

If people actually want things to change then they need to vote with their wallets and stop buying unfinished games.

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u/GuyWithNoName22 Nov 25 '22

Someone made a reply about the issue being like buying moldy bread and complaining that it's moldy, but still buying the same bread.

I wouldn't buy or support a dishwasher that only washed my dishes half the time or a fridge that only kept my food refrigerated for 12 hours of the day.

Most of the people I've asked on this situation have kept using but. It's a great game!...but. I am really having fun!...but. And then adding an entire list of issues they've dealt with like it's no big deal. And it is a big deal.

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u/DerpMan42 Nov 25 '22

over 20 years into 3d games actually

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u/FerventApathy Nov 25 '22

I still see the flashes of inspiration and appreciate the attempted art style - I think a lot of GF departments really earn their keep with the modern games but good god, just outsource some of the development. Their technical team is really holding them back and they need to accept this.

1.9k

u/ZeroGrinm Nov 24 '22

Gamefreak has access to 3D games since Pokemon Stadium. That's 1999. They have no excuse.

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u/HappyCappyFox Nov 24 '22

Yep. I agree they weren't on this scale, but the fact that 23 years later they still haven't figured it out is inexcusable for me

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u/zernoc56 Nov 24 '22

Stadium I think was outsourced to a different studio or something. It was developed by Nintendo and HAL Laboratory, not Gamefreak. Which is probably why it was so good.

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u/Hello_Cup Nov 25 '22

Even when Stadium was new though, I remember thinking "this is only half of a pokemon game". There was no exploration and no real plot to speak of, just turn based combat.

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u/Joh951518 Nov 25 '22

Yeah exactly. Stadium reception was lukewarm at best.

It’s got good reputation with the nostalgic though.

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u/Rommy0678 Nov 24 '22

Yes, I believe GF isn't capable of making the jump from handheld semi 3D games to home console. Whether that's because of management or the devs themselves is the real question. I clearly blame GF here, since creature inc and nintendo homebrew console games are generally good and dont have the same issues, while other games from GF are unpolished as well

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u/Alili1996 WoopWoop Nov 24 '22

Making an open world game is hard.
However, Gamefreak fails at the most fundamental level with this game. I can't see how it takes SECONDS to load the pc box icons and how scrolling through the pokedex renders the wrong icon for a split second.
I am having a lot of fun with the game, but it is a technical failure in almost every sense and i'm surprised how it is even playable

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u/Rommy0678 Nov 24 '22

Yeah, I'm desperately hoping for a patch to at least ease the most egregious issues, since I love the ideas behind the game, but the bugs, glitches and performance issues rip the joy out of it

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u/Alili1996 WoopWoop Nov 24 '22

My almost biggest gripe is one that isn't even considered a bug and probably won't fixed: The atrocious textbox pacing in battles.
Why can't the game just have an independent battle log that doesn't halt battle progression like the Mystery dungeon games?

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u/j0rdan21 Nov 24 '22

Man I cannot stand it. Arceus finally made all that stuff faster and now it takes forever again. I do not need you to tell me that my Pokémon hit twice with a text box when I JUST WATCHED IT HAPPEN. Same for all the stat changes and stuff. My god, just use an icon next to your hp like every other rpg out there. It’s ridiculous

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u/Shadowmirax Nov 25 '22

One of the new pokemon has an ability that buffs attack, special attack and speed and nerfs defense and special defense when its hp is low, it can trigger multiple times if you use a potion to go back above the threshold, each change happens individually, you have to watch the same animation and text box 5 times one top of whatever other things happened that turn

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u/TheRandomNPC Nov 25 '22

I also hope for a patch cause the game has actually hard-crashed for me. I was shocked as I have never had that happen on my switch before.

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u/Saephon Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

You hit the nail on the head. The hard part about making open world games is making them fun and fulfilling, and not feel like a copy-paste exercise of emptyness. These are design choices that take creativity and/or experience.

GF is failing at fundamental technical tasks. Textures, models, frame rate issues, cohesive art style, useful but interesting UI, etc. Looking at Pokémon S/V doesn't make me doubt that they can make a fun game. It makes me doubt that they can make a game, period. Their strongest entries seem to be older games on <500 MB cartridges, because there were fewer ways to screw up. It's Sonic all over again. Possibly worse.

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u/imposterfish Nov 24 '22

I thought Coliseum and Gales of Darkness were pretty good games

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u/LesbianIvy Nov 25 '22

Gamefreak didn't make those

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u/DatDarnKat Nov 25 '22

Yeah, that's what they said.

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u/Turokr Nov 25 '22

Pokemon Stadium minigames had more replayability than the switch games.

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u/Petrichawful Nov 24 '22

And 3D RPG games since Colosseum nearly 20 years ago, granted that was Genius Sonority but the company was made and funded by Nintendo.

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u/Rod1705 Nov 24 '22

Colosseum and XD were great fun to play as a kid. They should’ve been the stepping stones for the new generation of games.

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u/Myutaze Nov 24 '22

Genius Sonority nailed those games. The pokemons (animations) felt really alive

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u/justsomechewtle Nov 24 '22

I'm still sad that they didn't take Medicham's animations from the Genius Sonority games. It's my favorite since Gen3, but its modern animations are just sad compared to the crazy flips and kicks that made it my favorite.

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u/Myutaze Nov 24 '22

They need to hire another game developper to do a battle simulation game with PBR quality animation and use those same animations for the future in the mainline games.

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u/Another_Road Nov 24 '22

What’s worse is that Pokémon Stadium has overall better animations than SV.

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/AlviseVenice Nov 24 '22

Bro it’s been 25 years and I still have to immagine my Pokémon biting the other one during the fight….

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u/Gregamonster *agressive maraca noises* Nov 25 '22

And watch singers mouth words noiselessly.

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u/Jedahaw92 Nov 25 '22

Right! They have the VAs in Pokemon Masters.

USE THEM.

I get that they are different developers, but you are telling me that a multi billion dollar company can't hire them?

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u/Ruben3159 Nov 25 '22

Especially since other monster catching and battling rpgs like Shin Megami Tensei had voice acting on the 3ds. And that's from a much smaller company.

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u/mightylordredbeard Nov 25 '22

I didn’t believe you so I looked it up:

Pokémon: $90 billion

and the second one..

Mario: $30 billion

Holy fuck. Not only are they the most profitable, but they are so by $60 billion!!

Pokémon makes more than FIFA, Madden, NBA 2k, and GTA .. combined.

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u/AlmostFrontPage Nov 25 '22

Pokémon is the most profitable media franchise, period, not just gaming

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u/ExistingCleric0 Nov 25 '22

You mean a disembodied set of teeth materializing and biting at your mon isn't good enough?

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u/Lukas_mnstr56 Nov 25 '22

Yeah even if someone like monolith got the franchise, I don’t ever having the moves doing what they actually do.

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u/HappyCappyFox Nov 24 '22

Yeah, why is Pokémon still learning to walk? It should be hauling ass by now but its fans are complicit in letting it go as slow as it wants

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u/m4xks Nov 25 '22

i agree with everything youre saying but the problem is the sales every year are hauling ass. i just read something saying scarlet and violet broke more records this year already. :(

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u/OccultMachines Nov 25 '22

As someone who's worked in the game industry as a dev; there are probably plenty of them saying "we can make this better, let us do this and this, so on so forth" and the higher ups just say "NOPE, MAXIMUM MONEY PLEASE."

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u/GuyWithNoName22 Nov 24 '22

I hate that fix it later and push it out now has been so normalized because the entire gaming industry has been doing it so long that most of the new generations of gamers forget or weren't around when this wasn't a thing.

Gone are the days when we would have a fully polished complete game at launch. And it's not acceptable.

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u/ChronicTosser Nov 25 '22

It’s not even normalized anymore, any other game tries to do that and it gets ripped to shreds. GF/TPC is so far behind that they thought it was still the thing to do

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u/lilfenrir Consume product, then get excited for next products Nov 24 '22

If I've learned anything since Pokemon moved to the Switch, is that the fanboys sure love getting stepped on.

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u/Crunc_Mcfuncle Nov 24 '22

My god right? I can smell the copium radiating from the “You know, this game is actually really good underneath the performance issues!” posts.

Yeah, my car is great other than the transmission that craps out ever 5 miles!

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u/flashfreeze00 Nov 25 '22

Can confirm, am legit managing to have fun with the game but every time I say that there's the smell of copium on my breath

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u/chzygorditacrnch Nov 24 '22

I made a big fuss about how every Pokemon aren't in the main games any longer and other fans argued back, defending the decision, saying that they didn't care. I caught em all, and literally their original tagline was about catching em all. I had link cables and Pokemon bank and Pokemon home, (which I pay for each month..) and I've been playing since 1998. I love Pokemon and I don't understand how any "fan" could defend how all the Pokemon aren't in each game.. the switch can handle it.. on 3ds, sun & moon had each Pokemon, and the switch is ofcourse more powerful..

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u/ReallyColdMonkeys Nov 24 '22

When people started jumping through every hoop imaginable to justify the decision to not put every pokemon in the games anymore is when I knew this fanbase was lost. Not having them in the regional dex is fine but not even being able to port them over with Home even in the post game is insane to me.

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u/Samurai_lincoln84 Nov 24 '22

Yes! I'm still so salty that I can't use my original Blaziken.

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u/Special97 Nov 24 '22

I have a Swampert, that I brought from my first save of Ruby, all the way to Ultra Moon. I refuse to put him in Home, because it costs money and the free box is already full. Sometimes, I move it to Sun, just to make an egg, so that I can send it to Ultra Moon and play the entire game with Mudkip, I roleplay it as the son/daughter of my Ruby character and the son/daughter of my Ruby starter going on their own adventure. It's actually a ton of fun

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u/Zeenchi Nov 24 '22

I know how you feel. I've had nice pokemon with me, some I wish I could transfer over, breed, trade, etc but can't. I wish I could take some of my favs with me.

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u/Rival_Silver Nov 24 '22

People say it is a step in the right direction, but it makes me wonder. When do these people think Pokémon jumped backwards? Do they blame X and Y? Do they blame Sword and Shield? I am genuinely curious where they think the decline was.

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u/bennitori Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

Gen 1 gets a free pass since it was literally the starting ground. But even Gen 1's blue was a step forward from red and green. Better sprites. Fewer bugs. They were able to improve even within a single gen.

Gen 2 added better graphics, breeding, shinys, a day night system, new types to balance the psychic type, new pokemon, and an expanded post game with 2 regions worth of trainers and pokemon to catch.

Gen 3 added better graphics, double battles, contests, new EV/IV system, abilities, 3 regions worth of pokemon to catch, and Emerald added one of the most elaborate post games to date. Took away the day night system, but the incredible post game made that easy to ignore.

Gen 4 added better graphics, refined the EV IV system, 4 generations worth of pokemon to catch, transferring pokemon from previous gens, brought back the previously loved day night system that had been taken away and..... that was it. The post game took a step back, since it wasn't as elaborate as Emerald. The contests were a step down, since they weren't as refined as Gen 3. But hey, at least the formula still works! And then HGSS made up for DPP's missteps by recreating an incredible post game, on top of the post game DPP already added, allowing pokemon to walk behind you, plus a good (but still not as good as RSE's) contest system via the pokeathalon. So it was easy to forgive DPP since HGSS showed the pokemon franchise was still kicking.

Gen 5 added better graphics, a lot of pokemon (even if you couldn't catch all of them in one generation anymore,) the best story to date, a post game that rivaled Emerald and HGSS, seasons, and hidden abilities. The contests were now a joke compared to gen 4, and especially compared to gen 3. (EDIT: We ended up getting pokestar studios though. Which I think was a worthy replacement for contests, on par with pokeatholon.) The fact that you need transfers in order to get certain pokemon was a bit of a downer. But the story and post game made these losses negligible.

Gen 6 added 3D graphics, a new type to nerf dark and dragon types, some new pokemon, mega evolution, the ability to customize your avatar, and ....that was it. We lost contests entirely, and no equivalent like the pokeathalon or pokestar studios was there to make up for it. The story was a massive step down from gen 5, and even then a step down from gen 1-4. Even the gameplay in the story mode was ridiculously easy. A problem that had never appeared in a pokemon game before. The post game was also a massive downgrade, since it was basically DPP's post game but slightly more basic. Seasons were removed as well. Still can't catch all the pokemon in a single gen (EDIT: For now, as long as the Friend Safari remains intact, and given what happened to gen 5's dream world, I wouldn't count on it lasting forever.) Overall the first gen where the removal of features was obvious. But ORAS made it easier to swallow, since some of the missing features (contests and reasonable game difficulty) were present. Although the fact that you couldn't customize your avatar in ORAS but you could in XY was weird. Also, no Z game left people baffled.

Gen 7 added Z moves, some new pokemon, SOS battles, removed HM requirements.... and that was it. The difficulty was improved from gen 6. The new take on Gyms was interesting, but more of an equivalent than an improvement. And the story was a step up, though not as good as gen 5. Still a step in the right direction, even if it wasn't capturing the level of success in other games. No contests, no pokeathalon, no pokestar studios. Battle royales were better than nothing though. Post game was better than gen 6, but not by much. Removed two battle styles from the post game, but at least there were ultra beasts to catch. Removed the national dex.

Gen 8 added gigamax (which was just a weirder version of the already loved megas), overworld pokemon encounters, some new pokemon, and that was it. No graphics improvements, no national dex, no contests, laughably easy gameplay on par with gen 6, post game that was so bad they had to make DLC to make up for it, and they removed transferring.

I will admit I started losing interest in pokemon with gen 8. I was not willing to buy a switch for several hundred dollars, plus 60 more dollars just so I could blow through a game that was as easy as gen 6. And I certainly wasn't going to pay all that money for a post game where I couldn't use any of the buddy pokemon I had caught over my 15+ years playing pokemon. Insultingly easy, no post game, and I can't use my favorite pokemon? That's enough to make me not want to play anymore. And hearing that Gen 9 did next to nothing to improve only validates my choice to stop playing pokemon. If I want to enjoy pokemon, I'll just replay Alpha Sapphire or Ultra Moon. Those were both the last games to add any kind of innovative game mechanics any way. Gen 1-5 would take things away, but then the equivalent remakes would add those things back in, or they'd return something missing in the next gen. Gen 6 stopped adding, but at least it didn't start taking things away that ORAS couldn't add back in. Gen 7 took a few things, but left enough that I was willing to put up with it. Gen 8 took so much away that it wasn't worth it to me anymore.

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u/Blue_Gamer18 Nov 25 '22

You're missed pointing out how god awful and uninspiring BDSP are compared to past remakes a well

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u/bennitori Nov 25 '22

Lol, those were so bad that I kinda wiped them from my memory. Those were embarrassments. Especially compared to HGSS and ORAS. BDSP were the first examples I could think of where the remakes were significantly worse than the originals. At least the originals didn't softlock you or glitch out on you.

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u/SilverAmpharos777 Nov 25 '22

Gen 6:

no equivalent like the pokeathalon There was Super Training and the Pokemon Amie minigames.

Still can't catch all the pokemon in a single gen. All non-mythical Pokemon are catchable with X&Y and ORAS.

Had the best online/social aspects out of all gens with PSS, online secret bases, friend safari, O-Powers, etc.

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u/TheBiggestNose Nov 24 '22

Each generation shouldn't be a step. They are generations, they should be doing jumps and leaps each time!! You can barely call gen 8 -> gen 9 a step forward, its more like a drunken bumble in a circle

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u/dialzza Lil' Arceus Nov 24 '22

Each generation is a step, and many of them are steps backwards. 6-8 especially

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u/reece_93 Nov 24 '22

And also, none of the games in the past 8 years have been a step in the right direction, they’ve all pretty much been back steps as they keep stripping mechanics left right and centre

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u/Nero2377 Nov 24 '22

Yep, most of these games feel like "Allright" early access games. The problem is that actual early access games get completed and polished at some point, pokemon games don't.

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u/suckfail Nov 25 '22

I mean, they don't need to.

How many people in this very thread have bought the game already? I'm sure it's a large %.

If sales are guaranteed nothing will ever change.

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u/CalmShinyZubat Nov 24 '22

If anything, blame the rigid cycle they've put themselves in. With pokemon scheduling anything and everything related to pokemon around the 3 year cycle of the VG generations to keep all the various facets and industries of the economic juggernaut that is pokemon on schedule to coincide with the release of the first games of each new gen, the devs have a hard deadline that really can't move without screwing over every other part of the company as well as anyone involved with the selling, marketing, or broadcasting of the different pokemon products.

Disclaimer: This is just me repeating what I've read/heard from others who know much more about the business side of things than I do. If you want to know more, feel free to look into it.

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u/notwiththeflames Nov 24 '22

I'm getting deja vu from this. Didn't people say something similar with X and Y as well since it was the first 3D game?

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u/tonyarceus777 siren seal Nov 24 '22

this stuff is why i stopped buying/playing the games i refuse to lower my bar just because they want to rushed half-baked mid games for mass appeal, i'll just find something else i feel is worth my time ngl though it makes me sad to see something i used to love so much become so half-assed

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

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u/mrfatso111 Nov 24 '22

Fuck me , we are still using the hardware limitations bs ?

It was bullshit 3 years ago , it is still bullshit now

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u/DryingWashedClothes Nov 25 '22

The hardware excuse is definitely legitimate … if you’re pointing at games with the scale of Xenoblade 3 or Bayonetta 3. S/V don’t come even close to any of these and still look and run like shit. This isn’t the hardwares fault in this case, this is just cold, hard incompetence at work.

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u/GuyWithNoName22 Nov 24 '22

Didn't know it was being pitched back when Sword/Shield dropped. I know SS had its fair share of flak, but I feel like what I am seeing spread online is leagues ahead of any issues gen8 had.

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u/mrfatso111 Nov 24 '22

Yup back then they had used hardware limitations as an excuse for why they had to cut the national Dex as well to excuse the various pop in and issues.

Heck I remember that there was an article where masuda and team sounds proud that they spent half a year implementing grass and that is where the meme 6 month grass came from, not sure if those are still alive or dead dead.

And in my mind was that was just bullshit, we already had other open world games showing what the hardware was capable of ..

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u/GuyWithNoName22 Nov 25 '22

lmao I never heard about the six month grass deal. They should've programmed a lawnmower to save them time.

Exactly. I already mentioned Mario Odyssey and Botw, but there are others that come to mind. Witcher 3 was ported over and granted it wasn't as smooth as the other console versions, it still played well and didn't have many issues.

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u/HappyCappyFox Nov 24 '22

And when they have nothing left, they just tell us to stop criticism altogether because how dare we not like the things they do

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u/Cosmonerd-ish Nov 25 '22

Nono. It's really GameFreak no need to edit. Masuda admitted TPC held no control over them. Former employees called out that the old guard refuse to pick up new skills letting other contractors to pick up the slack.

GameFreak is poorly led, and not that competent in the first place. No need to scapegoat anyone else

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22

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u/RagTagTech Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

PLA wasn't a test it was prof of concept and a test of the game engine. It was a pretty amazing game for a 3 year development cycle. But The new games are just unpolished and buggy mess. With PLA coming out early this year this game could have been pushed to next year abd just think what this game would have been like with an extra 12 months of dev time.

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u/Afterlyte Nov 24 '22

That's the thing though. It couldn't have been pushed to next year. Because whoever is the main culprit of the release schedules (likely Nintendo) cares more about making sure the games come out exactly on the third Friday of November every 3 years, or whatever it is

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u/Kingrcf3 Nov 24 '22

Doubt it’s Nintendo alone. It’s the whole Pokémon company. Look at where the anime is now. They need a new game for the next season. Trading cards need new faces to keep selling.

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u/chux4w Nov 25 '22

The anime had to fall back on revisiting all the other regions because there was so little story in Galar. They've been waiting for content for years.

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u/ECHOxLegend Nov 25 '22

And even then that just proves the anime doesn't actually need the games, they're perfectly capable of writing their own stories within the established world and lore without needing a new game to hold their hand. Albeit Go (Goh?) specifically destroys all suspension of disbelief that the anime had over the games, but still!

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u/santahat2002 Nov 24 '22

That’s one weird thing about it though. Outside of Japan (I suppose that’s the kicker), we don’t even get Scarlet Violet Base Set for TCG until February, which just feels off. They could have done a PLA spinoff of something if they didn’t already to fill the gap for the anime. What this new game really did/does need is more time to iron out the technical issues.

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u/Useful-Potential-300 Nov 25 '22

Definitely not Nintendo forcing the schedule. Nintendo is notorious for the opposite actually; they delay their most profitable games for years(forgoing profit) for the sake of their reputation and releasing well polished games.

Insider knowledge suggests that it's the higher ups at Gamefreak pushing these rushed schedules.

I'd bet that Nintendo is actually pushing for delays behind the scenes, but Gamefreak and TPC are overruling them on that.

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u/Special97 Nov 24 '22

Because whoever is the main culprit of the release schedules (likely Nintendo)

Ah yes, Nintendo, the company known for their rushed projects done just to make money, right? It's not like they have delayed games or outright scrapped complete projects because they didn't like what came out.

https://www.gameskinny.com/wx91i/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-delays-finally-explained

https://www.polygon.com/23001374/zelda-breath-of-the-wild-2-release-date-delayed

https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/01/its-now-been-three-years-since-metroid-prime-4s-development-was-scrapped-and-restarted

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u/[deleted] Nov 24 '22 edited Nov 24 '22

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u/Myutaze Nov 24 '22

I don't think the issue here is solely GF. Its their release schedule. They need to take time to make a good game. For me since gen 8 (especially with dexit) the games on switch are falling in quality (with the potential exception of PLA, but even then PLA is great for pokemon game until now, but nothing amazing compared to other titles in the industry). No fans should keep the bar low and be okay with paying for a game that doesn't deserve its price.

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u/Lambdafish1 Nov 24 '22

PLA is a dip in quality too. The overworld is ugly, with GameCube textures, and no interesting landmarks, and the awful draw distance, and LOD animations.

It's a game with a compelling gameplay loop, and it is fun, but it is not a well made game.

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u/get_N_or_get_out Nov 25 '22

Yeah, I was pretty surprised at how bad Arceus looked at the time, and it's like Violet is an entire generation behind that.

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u/Poorly_Made_Comix Nov 24 '22

I 100% agree, the water and mud are such flat textures

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u/skilledwarman 2724-0491-2703 || mike (X) Nov 24 '22

Its actually annoying how fun the game is for how bad it looks/runs. I want to recommend it to more friends of mine who are hesitant to give pokemon another chance, but I shouldn't have to put a ton of astericks on that recommendation regaurding performance

And I really need a friend to pick up Scarlet so we can union circle and I can get what I need to update my living Dex when home launches...

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '22 edited Nov 25 '22

I completely agree with this take. If it weren't for how badly it looks and runs, this would probably be the best mainline Pokémon game since Black/White in terms of actual design, narrative, and characters. I finished the main story of Scarlet a couple of days ago and had an absolute blast with it from start to finish despite the occasional stutters and clips. No major glitches or crashes; maybe I'm just not as sensitive to poor performance and/or I got lucky with my copy and my Switch, but all of the issues I've experienced have been minor enough that they had no impact on my enjoyment.

In spite of that, though, the fact that this game released with these issues at all and that they seem to be very widespread is pretty inexcusable given how profitable the franchise is. I strongly suspect it's a byproduct of rushed development due to the pressure TPC likely places on GF to now get mainline games out every holiday season. I wonder what state the game would be in in another world where it got an additional few months in the oven.

The fact that the underlying game is so fun almost makes it more frustrating.

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u/Chimericect Nov 24 '22

I totally agree with this. I adored the game. It was so much fun for me to play. The characters were my favorite and this storyline was so much better than the other games i’ve played in a long while. My friends and I got it together and messed around using the union circle and it’s been a lot of fun using the game to connect with some online friends of mine as well. I really don’t regret buying it.

That said.

The game should have 100% been way better than it is now graphically. The camera panning has bothered me a few times. Pokemon in rocks or trees is constantly a thing. A friend of mine had a battle that wasn’t even in frame? I’ve had the app crash for no reason at least 3 or 4 times. Overall these don’t bother me as much since I play ark on xbox and the bugs there are significantly more annoying to me. I am one of little faith, but it would be nice for them to at least patch it up >_> Better late than never ya know

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u/HeadbandBoyWilson Nov 24 '22

Lmao putting battles in frame is my favorite part of this game. You fucking have to click the right stick in to reset the cam, then push it downwards to get a zoomed out overview of the battle. At this point you can rotate it freely and the battle will be much much more zoomed out than usual no matter what angle your at, and you can actually see what’s going on. I’m not sure why this even works.

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u/jodiepthh Nov 25 '22

I was having loads of fun on it but as I play the performance issues seem to get noticeably worse which is slowly ruining the experience and it just feels really slow loading and responding to anything which just makes it quite not smooth

Like today I was in a raid and my Pokémon sunk into the ground and turned fully black for the whole fight until it fainted and got sent back when the camera also sunk into the ground with it to watch it go back into the pokeball, I was just like wtf is happening to my poor pawmo

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u/skilledwarman 2724-0491-2703 || mike (X) Nov 25 '22

oh so the game does get worse as you play. theres a memory leak currently so you should restart every couple hours to clear it. has a very noticable effect

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u/HumongousBungus Nov 24 '22

it sucks but there’s nothing any amount of criticism is gonna do. these games already sold more than god of war and it hasn’t even been a week. we can’t boycott the games, and harassing the social media interns on twitter to “finish their games” isn’t gonna do anything. we can have discussions about it, but they will amount to nothing except bitterness in the community. the most the community’s ever done to effect change was bully the overworked developers on social media, and get them to release a response video begging us to stop. pokémon is too big to fail, and TPCi knows that.

i’ve accepted that long ago, and it saddens me to see the community tear itself apart again. anyone should be rightfully angry, and if ranting about how unfinished the games are on reddit.com makes you feel better, then go for it. just make sure you’re not taking that anger out on people who don’t deserve it.

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u/GenGaara25 Suck my Nov 24 '22

Yeah this is me done making excuses. Every game since Gen 6 I've said some variation of "oh but the next ones gonna be really good, this was basically practice" but it's clear they're just phoning it in.

X/Y: "Okay some flaws, certainly a step down from the last few. But it was a massive technical effort to jump to 3D. Now they know what they're doing and the pokemon models are already done the next one will be great".

Sun/Moon: "Okay I don't really vibe with this. But they're testing the waters of new formatting. The formula is old this is a great experiment to figure out ways to switch it up. Now they've tried some things what they do next should really amaze".

Sword/Shield: "Not up to the standard I was hoping. But it was their first jump to a home console, totally new hardware and capabilities. That must've been tough. Plus the wild areas were really good, that must've taken a lot of focus, and pokemon roam now! If they can just expand wild area to a whole region we're in for a winner next game"

Arceus: "Wooo, wild area whole game, total break from formula and mostly successful. Most experimental game yet but all the experiments worked. Unfortunate that it doesn't look great and there's limited things and places in world, but now they've got it down it'll be fine. If they can just combine what they've learned the past couple of games it'll be an S tier game".

Scarlet/Violet: "Okay, no, they're just never gonna give us the game we deserve are they? Half arsing it. BW2 was over a decade ago. We've had 3 generations in 3D, were now on a home console with open world capabilities, and this is what we get?"

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u/bayruss Nov 24 '22

Let's go Eevee and pickachu don't get enough credit. Riding on a Snorlax made me feel some type of way.

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u/Spydar05 Nov 25 '22

I will always say that is the best Pokemon game ever to introduce a new gamer to. That, OG Snap, or Pokemon Go when it first came out.

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u/silaswanders Nov 25 '22

Let’s Go looks incredible. I was heavily disappointed they didn’t have proper wild encounters, and my biggest fear at the time was that it’d become the new standard way to get Pokemon. But boy is it polished like no other Pokemon game on Switch. What I didn’t expect was for them to ditch it altogether and give us a downgrade in SWSH. Even Arceus in retrospect was a bold new direction that does so many of the mechanics way better SV. Never thought I’d look back at is and wish it’s at least looked more like it.

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u/jodiepthh Nov 25 '22

Pokémon sun was my first mainline Pokémon game other than a dungeon game so it has a special place in my heart and I’ll always love it! The 3DS and its graphics are nostalgic to me now, I sadly started on Pokémon games quite late and always wished I started on them when I was younger before sun

And arceus was just.. amazingggg! I was addicted to that game for ages until I beat it, it was such a breath of fresh air after Pokémon sword where I just got really bored and felt like I was just forcing myself to play for the sake of finishing it whilst not even enjoying it anymore but yes, the terrain in arceus was….. quite something

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u/FaeryLynne Nov 24 '22

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u/stormwave6 Nov 25 '22

What would nintendo have a fix planned?

Gamefreak is a separate company. The support guy is an outsourced company. Why would they know anything about Gamefreaks plan.

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u/Larenty Nov 25 '22

Don't get lured by this, this is a common support answers, especially since Nintendo is (also) probably outsourcing the support department to a third-party. They doing that so that every case feel it's the first time they hear it, and only moving onto the most exceptional cases if needed, one by one.

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u/damnsignins Nov 25 '22

How many "test" games do they get to make before we're allowed to criticize Pokémon for being lazy and/or greedy? As many as it takes for all of you to stop preordering, leading to 10 million copies sold in 3 days.

Stop acting like they aren't being rewarded for "proof of concepts" and "test" games. All the people complaining are fueling the problem.

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u/HTCDapperGent Nov 24 '22

so what I think is game freak is taking the negative comments and misunderstanding them or just taking the wrong approach to how to fix the criticism they received

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u/Keraph Nov 25 '22

Is the game good? Hell yeah, I've had so much fun with it so far.

Is it, from a technical point of view, unfinished, bug-ridden and an utter embarrassment for a main entry into the single most successful media franchise in the world? Yes. And I find it laughable to what lengths people go to defend the technical issues this game has.

I get it, people like Pokemon - I do as well. But as customers we really gotta get our shit together if we want companies to start giving a fuck.

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u/HappyCappyFox Nov 25 '22

This is the way to be :)

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u/SaphireShadows Nov 24 '22

I'm conflicted: I'm having fun with the game. More fun than I've had with the last 3 generations, really. But the game looks so bad. I'm not sure how to feel about it

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u/HappyCappyFox Nov 24 '22

It's confusing for sure :|

I miss when Pokémon was just SO COOL OH MY GOOOOSH

But maybe we all just look at the older games with rose colored glasses

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u/Liquid23- Nov 25 '22

Fun fact btw: this game doubled God of War Ragnarok’s sales current sales in less than 3 days. 5 mill to 10 mil units.

You can sell any pile of shit, as long as you’ve got a name.

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u/SakN95 Nov 25 '22

Techincal issues are not the only problem the game has. Level scaling is nonexistent and the game is a mess with balance because of that, everything is REALLY easy (except the last fight). No buildings, no set mode, no classic battle tower, no postgame story, no pokerus, no good EV training methods, no sidequest (apart from the optional classes in the school that are mostly tutorials), no elite 4 rematch/league unlimited rematches...

There are tons of things missing. It's kinda weird. I liked the games, the first open world adventure is really fun, playing with friends is AWESOME and really well implemented, the story is ok (although I think everything happens just right at the end of the game and it's not that much even if is epic) and the game is actually good if you let technical issues aside, but it's not the only problem the game has, at least to me...

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u/linkheroz Nov 25 '22

The gameplay is fantastic.

The performance is appalling.

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u/jr2694 Nov 24 '22

If your franchise can rent a car you have 0 excuses for bad ones, plain and simple. After pokemania this is worse than Skype vs Zoom

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u/IceFire0518 Nov 25 '22

I had big expectations for this game too. Given that Black and White plus Sun and Moon were vastly improved from their predecessors on the same handheld, I was expecting a big leap from Sword and Shield to Scarlet and Violet.

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u/FrostedLynx Nov 25 '22

Digital Foundary's review says it all with great comparisons.

https://youtu.be/pBZqt7D24Zc

As an avid Pokemon Fan, this is shameful and should actually get the treatment that Cyberpunk had. It should be taken from sale and refunded.

Textures look god damn awful / performance is awful.

Do not buy!

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u/hannahshadyg Nov 25 '22

I’m the kind of person that’s never really complained about Pokémon games, I’ve been playing them since I was little and I just love the franchise. Graphically stuff doesn’t bother me, and I haven’t had any nitpicks with any of the stories thus far. But this game hurt, not even just because of bugs and being unpolished, I could excuse all that if it didn’t feel so empty. Like “oh wow the map is so big”, yes but there’s nothing in it. Just empty fields and empty towns. There’s no Pokemon center to go in and interact with all the npcs, there’s like 30 trainers to battle total in the whole game in random locations, and you can’t even go in people’s houses anymore and immerse yourself in the world. Everyone has been comparing it to Cyberpunk but for me it feels like Fallout 76. Just open area with no life to it. And I also think the Tera typing is the weakest mechanic introduced, like yeah it might be cool for competitive but not from a story stand point. I just wish this game felt more whole :/

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u/King-Mugs Nov 24 '22

Does this mean you won’t be buying the next game?

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u/Dragonfire14 Nov 25 '22

Most defense of the game I hear is "I'm having fun with it though!" or "It's the best Pokemon game in a long time!". The thing is though, both those statements and the statements "The game is unfinished." and "TPC, GF, and Nintendo can do better with the resources they have access to." can be true!

I played Vampire Survivors back at the beginning of the year when it was far from a finished game, but still fun to play. SV is far from finished itself, but fun in the current state. A game's development state can effect it's enjoyment, but doesn't have to disable fun.

It's so frustrating seeing small developers and indie developers continue to pour their time and finances into making their games the best possible they can be, while 2 of the most successful companies in gaming and their personal pet studio are just pumping out mediocre games with no passion behind them. Look at all the amazing Pokemon fan games out there with passionate developers constantly trying to push the limits of the tools they have access to, for free mind you!

Pokemon has the potential to be a mind blowing experience, but it can also just be an easy profit. TPC/Nin/GF unfortunately are going for the easy money, and because of that even with the fantastic steps SV it is still being held back from what it could be.

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u/James-Avatar Nov 24 '22

I’ve played plenty of early access or beta builds of games that ran better than this does.

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u/Wendigo_lockout Nov 24 '22

I would say the blame lies materially with whoever made the decision NOT to postpone the game until it was finished. I agree the game is simply unfinished. I'm inclined to blame the producers rather than the devs, but I can't prove this is the case.

But yeah this game is just flat out unfinished. I don't think anyone can seriously argue that this was the intentional final product. S/v got rushed out the door to keep a schedule.

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u/operabelle93 Nov 25 '22

Your response is completely valid. Honestly I see merit to both sides of the argument.

Does S/V innovate on the traditional Pokémon Framework? Yes.

Do I enjoy playing it? Yes.

Is it unpolished and unfinished? Yes.

Could Pokémon make a more polished open world game with their budget? Absolutely.

Is the Switch hardware at fault? Perhaps.

Is it worth $60? Depends on what you value in a game.

Honestly I think it comes down to the business people at the top making decisions for the creatives (game developers, artists, musicians, artistic directors, etc.), who actually put their blood sweat and tears into the project.

5

u/CoolMintMC Nov 25 '22

This is exactly what I've been saying.

I wish we could get them to #EndYearlyPokemon & finally get a finished game.

It's not like they even ship it unfinished & then update it; it just stays unfinished FOREVER!

5

u/VengineerGER Nov 25 '22

It’s sad that it needs to be said that you can criticise a game but still point out the flaws. I liked my time playing the game but it ran horribly. It’s unacceptable to deliver a game in this state.

6

u/Dismal-Title9996 Nov 25 '22

TBH, I loved Arceus, but it wasn't a finished product. Same with sword and shield. That made me skeptical of buying S/V after the previous two Pokemon games.

This is a common practice by game companies now. they started slowly making their product worse and worse, by not allowing the game to develop in the time needed. Gamefreak isn't as bad as EA, but they are headed that direction. Just look at Madden, year after year people buy trash, and are pissed they bought trash. It's still a video game, but it's no longer quality.

Pokemon is going down that same path. If we continue to buy it after this, it won't get better either.

5

u/TJ_WANP Nov 25 '22

The big problem was level scaling. If I want to take on Ice Dude first because I am using Fuecoco, I should be able to. I could and he'd steamroll me because he's leveld to be 8th. Yet if I take on big girl or grass dude first. I would be okay, since Fuecoco is still good against them.

5

u/PainfullySynesthetic Nov 25 '22

I was fine letting the flaws slide because I was enjoying the game play out. Then it started chugging a bottle of fresh maple syrup and it took over 15 minutes to do a battle that should've taken 2 minutes...

And why do Pokemon storage boxes have to load every time I change the page???

18

u/RAINBOWPADDLEPOP Nov 24 '22

This game out sold God Of War

As much as you don’t like it It doesn’t matter People still buy broken games

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