r/nottheonion Nov 29 '22

Musk vs. Apple: Twitter is allegedly threatened with removal from the App Store Removed - Not Oniony

https://techaint.com/2022/11/29/musk-vs-apple-twitter-is-allegedly-threatened-with-removal-from-the-app-store/

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178 Upvotes

u/Flair_Helper Nov 30 '22

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135

u/spizzywinktom Nov 29 '22

Twitter always reminded me of being stuck in traffic - being so bored that you start reading everyone's bumper stickers.

26

u/gustavodotch Nov 29 '22

What an incredible analogy

13

u/assjackal Nov 29 '22

Depends on the circles you follow. It's great for artists and content creators but other than that it's mostly screaming into the void. The memes are fun too.

4

u/Rawesome16 Nov 29 '22

When I was on it I followed a lot of sports related things. Leaned about Kobe from Twitter before the tvs were taking about him. Other than that or what your mentioned its no bueno

2

u/generally_sane Nov 29 '22

Only this year did I discover there actually had been one good reason to use Twitter. After talking to several CISOs, I found out it's used to share news of cyber attacks quickly. That's how many attacks have been stopped from spreading. I was floored to discover that there was any use for this crappy platform. Hopefully, they've already found a better solution as I certainly didn't trust this platform before and certainly not now with its new dicktator.

113

u/Buck_Slamchest Nov 29 '22

The desperation is creeping in to each subsequent tweet with him. He's blaming "activists" for advertisers pulling their business when it's clear that the dumpster fire he's created is the real reason.

With most of the moderators gone, people are now apparently uploading full movies to the platform so he'll invariably have DMCA takedown requests on his plate sooner or later.

He paid $44bn for the company and I'd wager it's worth probably 1/10th of that now.

It's glorious to see.

65

u/Strange_Temperature Nov 29 '22

It was never worth 44bn. When he made that offer it was already worth significantly less.

And the fact is as a private company it’s only worth as much as someone is willing to buy it for, and it’s highly unlikely he’ll find another billionaire stupid enough to pay $44bn for something that’s incapable of turning a profit.

9

u/avengecolonelhughes Nov 29 '22

He’s probably spamming Kanye’s dms

3

u/Educational_Hawk1236 Nov 29 '22

He increased the bid from $54 to $54.20 because ha ha weed. That is now the world's most expensive weed joke at about $20 million.

-12

u/Tonkarz Nov 29 '22

Reddit told me that things are only worth what someone will pay for them and Musk paid $44 billion for Twitter so…

12

u/Impossible-Wedding-4 Nov 29 '22

Arguably it was worth that when he bought it. But undoubtedly it isn't worth it now especially if it gets pulled from apples store.

Musk way overpaid because his bluff was called and hes an idiot

6

u/Uncynical_Diogenes Nov 29 '22

And if you don’t realize how arbitrary that makes it, you really aren’t in any position to be ending your comments with ellipses.

19

u/raven080068 Nov 29 '22

https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/TWTR

It's worth about 19B right now. Also delisted on NYSE. So yeah

61

u/Electrical_Ingenuity Nov 29 '22

It’s delisted as it is no longer a public company. It’s worth far less than $19B now.

24

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

It makes me laugh when someone says that the value of twitter has jumped since Musk took over. Like, according to whom? Who is offering to buy twitter for more than $44Bn right now?

"He's got a duty to the shareholders, so he's doing the right thing."

Bro, there are no more twitter shareholders, there is no more twitter stock.

"Well he's got a duty to himself to make a profit, so he must be doing the right thing."

Sure Jan. I can't tell if you're an automated text bot or if you're 13 and just in love with a billionaire.

17

u/Electrical_Ingenuity Nov 29 '22

Hard to imagine how much karma Elon has thrown on the fire so quickly.

He went from the cover of Time magazine as the eccentric and kooky CEO of two successful companies to total pariah in not much more than a year.

He’s on the path to beat out Howard Hughs as our national rich oddball.

13

u/ffxivthrowaway03 Nov 29 '22

He's teetering on John McAfee territory. Give it a few years and we're gonna hear about this guy fucking off to the Maldives and being wanted for killing a man over a bottle of cheap rum or some crazy shit.

10

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

To be fair, he could hole up in a hotel suite with jars of piss and still make the cover of Time Magazine if he's influential from his hotel piss suite.

But yeah, this will be a case study in not just destroying a business, but destroying your own reputation as well.

8

u/assjackal Nov 29 '22

our national rich oddball.

Not even. He's losing billions on this bluff he thoroughly bungled. If he backed out he'd be in jail (which you'd guess how that would go if he couldn't even get Twitter there), instead it's looking like he might not even be a billionaire this same time next year, he has to make that money back or else he risks losing majority shareholder in Tesla, and I hear SpaceX is already making motions to remove him from the board so he'll stop embarrassing them on a galactic scale.

6

u/EvlMinion Nov 29 '22

I hear SpaceX is already making motions to remove him from the board

I've been waiting for that. SpaceX and Tesla are succeeding in spite of Musk, but SpaceX is probably well aware of the risk of losing out on government contracts because of Musk's instability.

7

u/assjackal Nov 29 '22

They are succeeding because Muskrat bought them as companies with promising, finished products and no amount for chewing on the wires can fuck that up.

Twitter was barely afloat when he acquired it, and people have not worked their whole lives to code for a bird app like they do for space exploration or to revolutionize the car industry, so they won't take the same level of abuse and stupidity.

10

u/thud_mantooth Nov 29 '22

Don't do Hughes dirty like that, at least he was a patriot. Musk is a willing ally of authoritarians around the world, and has the gall to portray himself as some noble defender of freedom.

3

u/Reveal101 Nov 29 '22

Yes, thank you! Hughes was a lunatic but he didn't fire thousands of people on a whim and he was a large part of the war effort before going completely batshit. He was actually a genius billionaire, unlike Musky the Clown here.

2

u/SXOSXO Nov 29 '22

Sure Jan. I can't tell if you're an automated text bot or if you're 13 and just in love with a billionaire.

I know grown men that think Elon can do no wrong, and that everything he says must be the work of genius. Guys in their late twenties and early thirties.

1

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

I heard Elon gives out million dollar bills to everyone who jumps to his defense on the internet.

2

u/odraencoded Nov 29 '22

there are no more twitter shareholders

iirc Saudi Arabia still owns 5% of it? It's not public anymore tho.

5

u/Buck_Slamchest Nov 29 '22

He borrowed $30bn to finance the deal with interest payments of $1bn a year so he’s already in way over his head.

2

u/someone76543 Nov 29 '22

I thought some or all of that was borrowed by Twitter, technically? So I don't think Musk has personal liability for that? Although if Twitter declared bankruptcy then the lenders would own the remains of Twitter.

5

u/Krycor Nov 29 '22

This.. it’s technically like a leveraged buy out so his personal loss is significantly less than what people think. Will be interesting to know how much money he cashed out of Tesla vs what he directly put into Twitter given 30bn+ is loan.

-52

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

How long has Musk owned Twitter now? barely a month? Give it a year then see what's up before letting schadenfreude take hold, he might succeed at what he is doing.

21

u/bilateralrope Nov 29 '22

What do you think he's trying to do ?

Also there is the issue that he's scaring off Twitters customers.

-51

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

I think he is trying to make twitter neutral, it has been terribly biased.

They are scared off now, they will probably return at some point, my point is thay it's too early to tell one way or the other.

24

u/sketchahedron Nov 29 '22

How does laying off 75% of his staff help make Twitter “more neutral”?

-40

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

There will be some info about thay released soon according to Musk, if you already don't know, then wait for that.

36

u/Morgolol Nov 29 '22

There will be some info about thay released soon according to Musk

Wow musk simps sound just like qanon followers, hilarious.

-11

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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11

u/ProfCharlesBrainman Nov 29 '22

You’d probably be better of if you took your water with a side of not white knighting Elon Musk.

-5

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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5

u/Squeebee007 Nov 29 '22

Will is be delivered in a box along with Trump’s tax returns?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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7

u/Squeebee007 Nov 29 '22

Neither does Musk’s plan.

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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8

u/DuckQueue Nov 29 '22

If he's trying to make it neutral, why is he making a platform already biased in favor of the right even more biased in favor of them?

-1

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

Yeah so that is why all the people who got unbanned were almost exclusively conservatives..

According to Musk there will be proof of this released in the near future, guess we will just have to see.

If it is proven that is has been biased against conservatives, would you agree its only fair to bias it against liberals for just as long as conservatives were targeted? Seems fair to me, both ways.

5

u/DuckQueue Nov 29 '22

so that is why all the people who got unbanned were almost exclusively conservatives..

They were the ones constantly violating the TOS. FFS, they got enormous leeway that no one else got when they violated the rules nonstop.

And Elon just didn't unban the leftists who were banned.

If it is proven that is has been biased against conservatives

LMAO and what if pigs are proven to have been flying all along?

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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2

u/DuckQueue Nov 29 '22

are exclusive to one political affiliation

I didn't say exclusive. I said they were the ones constantly doing it.

Are you lying or just stupid?

He is going for a general amnesty, unbanning everyone who didn't spam or break any laws...

That's his claim.

It's factually false, but it's his claim.

Afraid to answer properly?

It's a ridiculous counterfactual that is the opposite of reality in the first place, but to answer your question: no, no that would not be fair. Two wrongs don't make a right, no matter how much I dislike liberals.

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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15

u/bilateralrope Nov 29 '22

Advertisers are fleeing because they don't want their ads alongside the content Musk had allowed onto Twitter. They aren't going to come back while that content is still allowed.

Then there are failures like the Twitter Blue subscription. The mass impersonation that Musk didn't see coming despite the people who warned him.

-10

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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12

u/bilateralrope Nov 29 '22

Where does Twitter rank among platforms for advertising ?

Be sure to show your sources.

-2

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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16

u/bilateralrope Nov 29 '22

Good question. Go ask the people who are insisting that Twitter is too big a platform for advertisers to ignore. See if they have anything to back up their claim beyond "Musk can't be wrong"

0

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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8

u/BirdsbirdsBURDS Nov 29 '22

I think you are falling into the trap many people fell into 10 years ago when musk was still relatively unknown. The dude has a professional history of shitbaggery. He’s not some genius sifting through the rough for a diamond. He’s trying to polish a turd to make it look like something it’s not, while having significantly overpaid for said turd. He’s not some amazing businessman. He’a simply passing blame for his mistakes into others, when it’s easy to see he’s taken command of a ship without power, and blown holes in it, making the situation worse and is low blaming the passengers.

0

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

Nah Im just saying its too early to tell one way or another, and it is, by saying for sure one way or another, you are claiming precognition, which is stupid.

10

u/BirdsbirdsBURDS Nov 29 '22

But it’s really not to early to tell. If there were small oscillations in valuation, small changes here and there in management, you could argue that it’s still in the air how twitter comes out. Hell, even with big changes in management and direction as long as they were in line with social standards you’d still have a leg to stand on, but his supposed business model is to basically turn twitter into the Wild West of social media, which historically doesn’t make sense since even the Wild West caved to social order. His plans are far as anyone can tell based on his actions are erratic at best, and counter to the wider social expectations at worst, which as we have seen are driving away advertisers, which are the largest source of continue income. This is not in any way a good business decision, short term or long term. It’s not some guess or divination that twitter is going to come out ahead here. If twitter is still around in a year, it will be far less profitable and far less influential than it is now. And that’s based off of what we can see. This is why I’m saying your falling into the musk trap. He’s a P.R. champion, not an innovator. He didn’t revolutionize Tesla or spacex, he advertised them and brought in funding.

0

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

So you are claiming precognition then, that's pretty dumb.

Can I have next weeks lottery numbers please?

7

u/BirdsbirdsBURDS Nov 29 '22

Good luck with any critical thinking dude. Next weeks lotto numbers are 8 67 53 09. Play away.

0

u/Fantact Nov 29 '22

I wouldn't go around criticizing other people's critical thinking skills when you are literally claiming to know how the future will play out, its a silly thing to do, arrogant even, and usually reserved for woo woo quacks who think you can stick sun charged crystals up your ass to cure cancer, but yeah good luck to me I guess xD

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56

u/the1j Nov 29 '22

at this point even politics aside, can musk go a day without making some dumb controversy about twitter monetization?

29

u/Carteeg_Struve Nov 29 '22

It’s the only advertising strategy they have.

5

u/Abides1948 Nov 29 '22

Haven't they fired the advertising strategy department?

25

u/jimicus Nov 29 '22

He's flailing. Jumping from one idea to the next without even stopping to think if they make sense.

It's seldom a symptom of a stable business with a plan to become profitable.

7

u/garry4321 Nov 29 '22

His plan was to get out of the deal, but he finally got called out for trying to commit yet ANOTHER financial crime, so he was forced to buy. Now hes just doing that thing that kids do where they have a tantrum and then claim "I didnt even WANT twitter to succeed anyways" all of this is so when it fails and he loses everything, he can turn back to his basement dwelling supporters and be like "Ha, people thought I was actually trying, when I MEANT to come up with horrible ideas. Such a funny troll right guys?!"

9

u/Off-With-Her-Head Nov 29 '22

It's embarrassing to see this "genius" publicly whingeing about his self-inflicted business problems. He doesn't understand people, he doesn't understand how marketing works and I gather he doesn't understand how to build and maintain a service-based business.

47

u/nova9001 Nov 29 '22

However, Apple had already made it clear in the past few days that they were closely monitoring how user-generated content was moderated on Twitter and that consequences would be drawn if necessary.

If you don't moderate, action will be taken. Users are leaving, advertisers are leaving. Being removed from app store doesn't surprise anyone at this point.

This will be a case study on how to kill a company.

8

u/danceswithtree Nov 29 '22

This will be a case study on how to kill a company.

But Elon said he will make a Twitter phone if Twitter is kicked off. I can't wait for a Twitter phone! Reminds me of the line from Arrested Development:

It's just a phone Michael. How hard can it be to make a new phone?!

2

u/CuteCatBoy69 Nov 30 '22

God I would love to see a Twitter phone so much. That would be such a stupid fucking idea that would cost him so much money and fail catastrophically if it ever even made it into production. And it'd probably have really stupid features and design choices that are absolute nonsense.

30

u/RoseyOneOne Nov 29 '22

If he doesn’t like it he can buy Apple. That’s how you fix everything, right Elon? 🤷‍♂️

14

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

"Elon is going to buy Meta next and bring back free speech to facebook!"

Dude, Elon had to call foreign friends to scrape together the cash to buy twitter. Meta's got ten times the market cap that twitter did.

4

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

And now all those foreign friends probably have unrestricted access to all of twitter's metadata.
Names, dates, locations, and so much more.

2

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

Metadata? No, he just handed over all their actual identifying data in repayment.

6

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

Same thing.
I was using the term metadata to encapsulate, "any data that's not specifically a tweet."

1

u/override367 Nov 29 '22

im more worried about him buying reddit

3

u/Zeduca Nov 29 '22

US$2.9T. Piece of cake. Elon can skip lunch for couple of days and pay for it.

1

u/Selethorme Nov 30 '22

That’s one of the funniest things, Apple has enough liquid cash alone to buy every Tesla share at its current stock price.

Elmo is out of his league.

7

u/DrSendy Nov 29 '22

Twitter: "...or you'll what"

Apple: "Or we'll put a thin API around Kafka and write a UI".

Twitter: ".... oh... ahhhh".

29

u/rotyag Nov 29 '22

It's amusing to watch people complain about their loss of freedoms with such palatable ignorance. And the government agent preventing your free speech would be? He's making an emotional plea because his factual arguments are out of reach. Hate is coming through on the Apple provided connection. Of course they can moderate that. If you came into my house espousing hate, you'll find moderation there too. The free speech is outside motherfucker.

10

u/josidhe Nov 29 '22

It's not even an emotional plea. It's a rallying cry on the far right and is 100% insincere. They all absolutely want the government to restrict speech and expression for, say, LGBT people. They love government censorship.

They want to fight their culture war, and use "freedom of speech" as a way to defend spreading hateful shit. Any pushback on their hateful shit is therefore branded as an attack on their freedom, and being able to say "we're under attack" helps spread their hateful shit even further.

13

u/MrNothingmann Nov 29 '22

I’m sorry but him threatening to sell his shares if apple removed it from the shop seems like manipulation and holding ransom on a free market. What’s to stop him from saying if enterprise rent a car doesn’t buy a million teslas he’s selling his stock? This bullshit needs to be regulated its absolutely a billionaire playground.

12

u/Off-With-Her-Head Nov 29 '22

Isn't he already in hot water with the SEC for his fraudulent announcements about Tesla? His narcissism blinds him from recognizing the government is actually a higher authority than himself.

4

u/override367 Nov 29 '22 edited Nov 29 '22

The SEC is a toothless organization, you can walk up and put your dick in Gary Gensler's face every day if you're a billionaire without consequence

Twitter is under a consent decree by the FTC, and unlike the SEC, they can do things, including arrest people

3

u/generally_sane Nov 29 '22

Sounds like he'll be our next GOP presidential candidate then based on recent trends...

1

u/platinumpandas Nov 30 '22

He already did exactly this to the Gates Foundation after finding out Bill was personally privately holding a $500M short position on Tesla and was not going to close it out. Ironically, the entire text exchange came out during discovery in the Twitter lawsuit and is now public. Along with many, many other embarrassing communications that do not exactly portray a gaggle of stable geniuses.

21

u/Mdly68 Nov 29 '22 Silver

Paraphrasing a post I saw the other day - freedom of speech means the GOVERNMENT can't censor you. Companies can.

9

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

Exactly.

Companies are like private citizens, for better or worse.
Apple decides who and what is on their myriad of devices, for better or worse.

If someone doesn't want your product they don't have to get it.
In this case, apple doesn't want what the muskrat is selling.

-16

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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11

u/acosm Nov 29 '22

That's not true. What you're likely referring to is Section 230, which does not make a distinction between 'platform' and 'publisher'. Online platforms also have a first amendment right to moderate the content that appears on their platform, and are further protected by Section 230, which shields them from liability for that moderation.

EFF has a thorough and informative article on the subject: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2020/12/section-230-good-actually

13

u/jens-2420 Nov 29 '22

Not true. That story was started by Mr. Musk. Apple did not announce or threaten anything.

5

u/Vegan_Harvest Nov 29 '22

If they were playing by Musk rules they would have done it as soon as he said word one against them.

I think they should anyway, he's turned Twitter into a hate speech app.

3

u/CuteCatBoy69 Nov 30 '22

I'd be surprised if they don't pull it after he made up claims about them threatening to do so. Can't imagine they would just let someone with such a large following and reach make up complete lies about their company as a means to stir up hate against them without some form of retribution.

1

u/Vegan_Harvest Nov 30 '22

If they go back it's basically confirming they can be bullied with a tweet.

1

u/CuteCatBoy69 Nov 30 '22

You mean if they pull it from the store? I'd take that as the opposite of allowing themselves to be bullied. I think that'd pretty much say "don't fuck with us" in a very firm and direct way.

1

u/Vegan_Harvest Nov 30 '22

I meant the pulling ads. I'm mixing stories in my head.

5

u/MJGM235 Nov 29 '22

Musk has made Twitter as bad as 4chan

3

u/kinokomushroom Nov 29 '22

Lol I thought it couldn't get worse and Elon still managed to somehow make it worse

1

u/MOS95B Nov 29 '22

I feel like that would hurt both of them.

Twitter obviously if suddenly iPhone users can't access the platform (through their phone app anyway. Still available through a browser I'd assume)

Apple - For the iPhone owners who <airquote>have to have</airquote> twitter, they'll have to consider changing platforms

Luckily, I'm not in either camp, so it's just a potentially interesting show to me

1

u/generic_edgelord Nov 29 '22

Wouldnt the app still work because you already downloaded it? You would probably have issues updating the app in the future but its already on your phone until you personally delete it

3

u/MOS95B Nov 29 '22

No idea with iPhones. You'd think so, but it could also depend on how "mad" they are at each other

3

u/Off-With-Her-Head Nov 29 '22

I don't think Apple would block the downloaded app from working. That seems out of their ethos.

1

u/generic_edgelord Nov 29 '22

Then why would twitter be threatened with the apps removal from the appstore? If memory serves there hasnt been much growth in iphone users over the past decade and the ones renewing their iphone every release could just grab the app again when they sync their new phone with the old

3

u/Geobits Nov 29 '22

When you sync your new phone, it doesn't transfer the app straight from the old phone. It gets a list of what apps you had and downloads them from the app store. App data may be tranferred directly (not sure), but not the app itself, or at least that's how it worked a year or so ago.

1

u/bel9708 Nov 29 '22

Twitter is private now so their commitment to growth isn’t as much as it used to be. But getting kicked off the AppStore stops the ability to grow. Which knee caps the ability to get investors and hurts the overall valuation of the company.

0

u/Zeduca Nov 29 '22

Twitter can offer the app for download from its own servers. Or Twitter can abandon Apple market completely.

0

u/SirKazum Nov 29 '22

One would hurt a lot more than the other though. It would be the death knell for Twitter, it would see such a massive drop in users it would probably finally collapse as a social network. As for Apple, they might lose some people who absolutely will not live without Twitter, but I can't see that being a very considerable slice of Apple's iPhone user base.

0

u/CruzSquatch Nov 29 '22

Its kinda funny cause apple didnt care about all the cp on twitter, but they seem to care about this instead

Shows how corporations only care about money and pushing their agenda

1

u/huffcox Nov 29 '22

He would lose the majority of users.

1

u/NothingUsefulToAdd Nov 30 '22

I wonder if this is true because TruthSocial is allowed on the app store. I've never been on TruthSocial so I don't know if it has hate speech, but I would imagine it has dumb stuff on there.

I'm fairly certain it comes down to that blue verification idea and Elon not wanting to pay for it. He should just charge $11.50 to cover the apple and android tax. Pass it on to people that actually would pay for it.

1

u/leadz579 Nov 30 '22

How is this musk vs Apple?

1

u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22

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1

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-63

u/JapanKaren Nov 29 '22

Despite what you think about musk, this has massive anti trust lawsuit implications if apple goes through with a delisting. Twitter has competitors that are not delisted. If just one incident that apple alleges is a cause for a delisting is found in a competitor that isn't delisted, apple will lose. Apple must have reasonable cause for delisting Twitter after years of satisfactory rating. Given that it must in fact remain neutral on a free and fair hosted market place, this is a serious consideration that could be equated to strong arming, market manipulation, or favoritism.

Apple, on the other hand, must successfully argue that if Americans are allowed their constitutional rights, that it would somehow harm apple for permitting the download on its store. In this case, Apple must offer Twitter the ability to allow users to install Twitter via third party installer. If apple does not successfully argue, or offer a compensatory alternative, it will be in deep financial shit.

23

u/danteheehaw Nov 29 '22

Apple delist shit all the time... because it's well within their rights

-14

u/JapanKaren Nov 29 '22

You cannot discriminate one business for arbitrary reasons and not another for the same in a publicly accessible market. Terms of service does not except you from anti trust. You still need to uphold your standards equally across the board. If apple says it can remove unmoderated platforms, it must define what that means so we can evaluate it against others that are not removed for the same violations. If apple is truly equal in all removals, then a lengthy antitrust is not on the table, as being equal, this doesn't favor one business or group over another.

13

u/DuckQueue Nov 29 '22

Your imagined understanding of the law is hilarious.

9

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

Of course you can.

If I own a newspaper I can decide I want Hand Dandy Hand Warmers ads in my paper but not Frank's Fine Finger Warmers because I don't like Frank's hair.

Apple isn't a social media company, it's a platform.
Apple isn't the only platform on which twitter exists.

-1

u/JapanKaren Nov 29 '22

It's fine to deny service out the gate for some arbitrary reason that isn't definable in discrimination law or violates anti trust. Though you can't arbitrarily cancel Frank's Finger Warmers years of satisfactory service whilst keeping its competitors when you maintain a TOS and use it as your justification for removal. The court can analyze the TOS as the guide for why Twitter can be removed and a jury decides if anti trust is violated. This is fact, no amount of dog piling will change this.

Twitter isn't parler. Twitter was on the platform for a long fucking time. The TOS better be clear or this will become a landmark case.

3

u/bel9708 Nov 29 '22

Twitter was on the platform for a long fucking time when it was under responsible management.

In fact musk twitter might be kicked off faster than parlor so by your definition everything seems kosher.

1

u/JapanKaren Nov 30 '22

Management style is your opinion. Twitter is still moderated, perhaps just not the way YOU want it moderated. This moderation needs to be defined in the TOS. If it is not, then Apple simply needs to define what is proper levels of moderation and what types of incidents need to be moderated. Then Twitter just needs to demonstrate that you can find such things on Reddit or another hosted competitor.

The anti trust comes from, "you took us down for X, but my competitor is violating x, here, here, and here. Yet you don't take them down."

2

u/bel9708 Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

Twitter is still moderated

Citation needed. All evidence suggests firing a majority of the moderators had the effect you would expect

just not the way YOU want it moderated

The way I want it moderated doesn’t matter. It’s the way apple wants it moderated

This moderation needs to be defined in the TOS. If it is not, then Apple simply needs to define what is proper levels of moderation and what types of incidents need to be moderated

They have. It’s in the agreement when you sign up for an apple developer account.

you took us down for X, but my competitor is violating x, here, here, and here. Yet you don't take them down

That is not what anti trust is lol. Apple has kicked high profile companies off the AppStore before. California courts ruled in their favor on 9/10 allegations.

1

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

The difference is when Frank stars offering more than hand warmers like hand "warmers", then he can be dropped.

1

u/JapanKaren Nov 30 '22

If it was in the TOS all this time and it was violated, yes. If it wasn't in the TOS and franks had obeyed it along with its competition, but franks gets dropped, it is potentially anti-trust.

1

u/Selethorme Nov 30 '22

when you maintain a TOS and use it as your justification for removal.

You can, actually.

35

u/permalink_save Nov 29 '22

If Apple was social media then sure but there are TOS. Any company could have played this card, like Parler, but didn't because there's not shit you can really do here. Apple isn't obligated to host unmoderated platforms and twitter is still accessible on mobile devices.

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u/JapanKaren Nov 29 '22

TOS doesn't exempt you from anti trust. Parlor does not have the money or popular backing Musk has. My feeling is a jury would not side with Apple. The argument is not for Musk or Twitter. The argument is pointing out that if Twitter sues, Apple must define in court what unmoderated means, and what specifically is the financial harm for this "unmoderated status" that warrants a removal from its platform. I think we might agree that it is a simple definition of the financial harm might be anything from negligible to being affiliated with Nazis. So a trial will draw out clearer definitions a jury can digest. Then Twitter will try to find apps that fit this category that were never removed. If this is achieved, Apple loses. If Apple is caught lying, it loses. If the jury doesn't like Apple, it loses. Is it a hard case? Yes. Is it expensive? Yes. Can Twitter still lose? Yes. Apple can easily find a security flaw or some other gotcha and win on a technicality. It's so hard and expensive, Parlor could not afford it. That's all I'm saying.

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u/mailboxfacehugs Nov 29 '22

I like how amongst all the legal jargon, you just threw in there that the jury just has to not like Apple for them to lose.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

4

u/RogueDairyQueen Nov 29 '22

Wait, are you trying to say that Apple, APPLE, are Marxists? Or only Marxists would favor a trillion dollar corporation?

What in the actual fuck do you think “Marxism” is?!

No, no, don’t answer, the world will be better off without knowing

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u/[deleted] Nov 30 '22 edited Nov 30 '22

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Selethorme Nov 30 '22

No, people just aren’t buying your bullshit argument.

7

u/permalink_save Nov 29 '22

Your argument is a feeling. I don't know if you followed Parler well but it had plenty of support and could have made a case for antitrust issues, but Apple doesn't have a dog in the fight of social media, banning Twitter isn't directly benefitting any of their produts other than keeping a toxic app off of their store that voilates their TOS that communities need moderation. I bring up Parler because this is well established now how they operate. What is the line here? Who can pay enough to overwhelm the legal system? Parler is big enough but if they "don't have the money" to fight it then legality doesn't matter at this point and it's just which oligarch can push around the legal system, that's far beyond antitrust laws and really what the law is suppose to prevent. So you think it's completely in spirit of our laws, that Musk can buy a company, that fosters terrorism and hate speech, and can force other companies to distribute it?

-5

u/JapanKaren Nov 29 '22

I partially agree with your final few sentences. Oligarchs being above the law is a problem, and it can certainly impact juries if the despot is popular. It's dangerous and not good for the people.

A company certainly can't be obligated to sell something it feels is harmful. Which is why I specifically mention security and financial damages from security dangers or lost ad revenue from being affiliated with Nazis or not pleasing the CCP. It's a valid counter argument to Twitter and forces them to consider the TOS.

As for Musk having a reasonable expectation to buy a platform and being gauranteed the ability to sell it on the same market places it's been approved for years, again, Musk must ensure he is following the TOS.

However, asserting the position that Twitter is a toxic app, that musk's company fosters terrorism and hate speech, is "belief".

The TOS must be able to clearly define logical reasons why it is applicable, and that it is equally enforced on all customers. Apple cannot offer, "toxic app", and, "you support terrorists and hate speech", as valid arguments. It must clearly define what "moderated" means and it cannot offer discriminatory bias in its definition. By discrimination, I'm talking about religious beliefs, ethnicities, disabilities, sexualities, gender, and actions to be construed as violating anti trust, like protecting a competitor, offering unfair advantages to others, or not applying ones TOS equally to all customers.

If you apply TOS clause to one customer because of your bias against them, but you don't apply the TOS clause in another client because you didn't see them, you like them, or they bribed you, but they are going to be viewed as violating the TOS by the court, then this is discriminatory application of your right to do business.

It's no different from being white and not letting a man of color rent your room. You applied discriminatory bias against a customer for looking a certain way or believing certain things. If you get caught not applying TOS equally, then valid anti trust, this is.

6

u/Accurate_Koala_4698 Nov 29 '22

Hmmm… yes, this sounds like a reasonable understanding of the American legal system and anti-trust legislation.

11

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22 edited 25d ago

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '22

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1

u/Selethorme Nov 30 '22

Yours is objectively wrong on the facts.

10

u/Oswarez Nov 29 '22

What business law school did you go to and for how long have you been practicing corporate law?

8

u/SweatyTax4669 Nov 29 '22

They got their degree from the highly prestigious TrumpLawU, which offers a 12 month JD program specializing in "anything I don't like is unfair and unconstitutional."

1

u/8-bit-Felix Nov 29 '22

And got the Alina Habba post-graduate, "making crap up to sound impressive" degree.

0

u/Early_Cow6602 Nov 30 '22

Personally I’d love to get out from under the thumb of Apple. I’d buy a Tesla phone in a heartbeat