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Stranger Things Season 4 Volume 2 Series Discussion Discussion

In this thread you can discuss the entirety of season 4 Volume 2 without spoilers code. If you haven't seen the entire season yet stay away!!!

What did you like about it?

What didn't you like?

Favorite character this season?

What do you want from season 5?


Part 2 Avatars

Reddit is back with four more Stranger Things Avatars to celebrate Part 2 of Season 4!

In addition to the Demogorgon, Eleven, Hopper, or Scoops Ahoy Steve, you can now update your avatar to Eddie, Lucas, Max or Vecna! Or you can try mixing and matching them :D

To equip an Avatar go to the avatar builder.

9.0k Upvotes

u/StrangerTesting Jul 01 '22

In this thread you can discuss the entirety of season 4 Volume 2 without spoilers code. If you haven't seen the entire season yet stay away!!!

1

u/[deleted] 5h ago edited 5h ago

This is some damn good story telling and I’m fully immersed. I like this season and this is the future of story telling

5

u/Ox_Baker 1d ago edited 18h ago

What did I like?

The El/Vecna ‘origin’ storyline was interesting and helped fill us in on the mysteries of Hawkins Lab. Lucas got to do things instead of being a sidekick who’s mostly just there. Nancy Drew being a boss. Steve being a heroic babysitter. Eddie Munster (Munson, but I can’t help but think the name was an homage of sorts). The Hellfire Club. Super cop in California being a complete Rambo-level merc.

What did I not like?

S4 basically served three purposes: 1) Introduce a new villain, 2) El origin story, 3) Completely unwrite the end of S3.

At the end of S3: El has no powers, the gang is split up between Hawkins and California, and Hopper is gone (presumed dead … maybe, but there was the hint at the end of the season and the trailer ended that speculation).

So we spent most of S4 getting El’s powers back, bringing the gang back together in Hawkins and getting Hopper back. So we end up more or less exactly where we were late in S3 with the new, bigger threat and new villain and we’re headed for a S5 showdown … which could have really mostly been accomplished already if they hadn’t done all of those things at the end of S3.

So it felt like ‘um, now that we think about it maybe we shouldn’t have ended S3 that way so let’s devote an entire season to fix that.’

The whole stoner thing to me added nothing. I assume their demo research told them a lot of people get high and watch the series so they did that out of fan service.

Favorite character: Munson obviously as a new character, but I liked Nancy and Steve (not so much their will-they-won’t-they-get-back-together, just each had more development and likability).

Plot holes: You didn’t ask for this, but a couple of things bug me.

1) How much did California pizza delivery drivers in the 1980s get paid? Because that’s the only source of funding I can think of for this group to travel cross-country (on the run with no real planning ahead) and feed themselves and buy gas and whatever else they might need to do to survive. We know Argyle presumably spends a decent amount of money on pot, so how does he (or the others) have funds on hand for this? They aren’t going to have credit cards, and Argyle aside if they did the government would be waiting for it to be used to track them if they did.

2) Vecna was sinister but why was he a major threat? I mean, he has to kill kids (doesn’t seem to target adults) one at the time and it takes a week or so for him to work up to it as he haunts them. And he only can target troubled teens with guilt issues. Basically he’s portrayed through most of the season as a serial killer, not a monster on the level of the hellhounds and demogorgons and such who could run through an entire town in a few days (if enough were released) in past seasons. Vecna couldn’t even wipe out the small town of Hawkins as he’s portrayed most of the way (but yet he seems to think he can achieve global domination).

3) What about the school counselor with the clock pendant? She’s the nexus of the Vecna victims and it’s heavily hinted out … and just dropped. Seems there should have been some resolution there.

What do I want in S5? A more linear, coherent story. Don’t try to be democratic in handing out important things to each character, it’s OK for some to be more in the background. Ultimately it’s El and Hopper who are the main protagonists so let them take the lead. And don’t make movie-length episodes just because you can. I’d rather a more condensed season that sticks to the main plot and has everything serving that.

1

u/Successful-Brain8872 5h ago

Yeah I agree I loved Eddie Munson as a character not fun fact the actor who plays Eddie couldn’t take breaks or use bathroom to so hats off for the man

1

u/buckzor122 1h ago

What why?

1

u/Successful-Brain8872 1h ago

Yeah heard about the actors problem with the staff shooting the netflix series on a radio show I think but it is true

2

u/PutinHasATinyPenis 1d ago

How do I make a post here? It's telling me I'm not allowed but I have a question I need answered about the show.

1

u/TiredPistachio 17h ago

You need a certain minimum amount of karma to make a post. Just make a couple of insightful comments and people will upvote them and youll have enough karma. Its a fairly low threshold

edit - huh you have 5700 karma that should be plenty

2

u/Ox_Baker 1d ago

You just did.

6

u/ClubSoda 2d ago

Is Max's Mom dead now as a result of the fire, etc? If not, why don't we see her at the hospital with Max?

4

u/nvn911 1d ago

Sadly I think that is the correct conclusion. She would definitely be there

6

u/NINJABOIBOININJA 2d ago

What did you like about it?

Everything, the characters, the plot. The storytelling, especially Eddy Munson & Chrissy. The music was amazing as well. Rooting for Nancy x Steve, I want Jonothan to feel free, he seems to feel trapped between a rock and a hard place with Nancy. Who know's how that goes!

Favorite Quote: "I didn't run away this time, right?"

What didn't you like?

Not understanding what was going on with Will. There seems to be hints but the show didn't come out and explicitly say what's going on with Will. Kind of annoyed with the whole jock's are bad guys stereotype, but Steve kind of shows that not all popular kids are bad.

Favorite Character this season?

This quote right here comes to mind “You boys are the future of Hellfire. I knew it the moment I saw you. You sat on that table, right there, looking like two lost little sheep… And we showed you that school didn’t have to be the worst years of your life, right? Well, I’m here to tell you that there are other lost little sheepies out there who need help. Who need you.” Anyone who makes space for other outsiders to be a part of and/or feel safe is a hero in my opinion.

Without a doubt Eddy Munson. I see so much of myself in that character. Looks can be deceiving and when you look past the surface of Eddy you see a loyal friend with a heart of gold. He thinks he's a coward, but I respect him for being the leader of a club. I think it's admirable he leads a band, even though he's perfectly aware of how society views him he doesn't care and is perfectly happy with himself. He feels ashamed about not being a hero like Steve, but in the end, makes the ultimate sacrifice as a hero would.

What do you want from season 5?

I want Will happy again, his anxiety gives me stress. I look froward to seeing how the quasi love traingle between Nancy, Steve, & Jonothan plays out. What happens with Max? More DnD!! I feel really bad Eddy died, who takes over hellfire club? How does Vecna get defeated?

8

u/DareWright 2d ago edited 2d ago

Liked: The interactions between Joyce and Hopper. The actors are fantastic and their chemistry is totally believable.

Disliked: I couldn’t stand Argyle. I don’t think he contributed much except for the salt bath at the pizza place. He seemed like a ripoff of Jeff Spicoli (Fast Times At Ridgemont High). I also didn’t like Jonathan turning into a complete pothead, and I desperately wanted him to bathe and brush his teeth. Will was very annoying this season, and I grew tired of Robin’s crush on Vickie (aka Great Value Molly Ringwald).

Wanting from Season Five: Less of Will blubbering, less of the Robin/Vickie relationship, Max surviving, Nancy ditching Jonathan and Steve and just being on her own. And more of Erica and her spunkiness.

Favorite character(s): Loved Vecna. Finally this season we get a speaking villain! Also loved Suzie (Dustin’s gf) and Murray has really grown on me.

1

u/reddog323 3h ago

Murray has really grown on me.

I liked that they stopped using him strictly for comic relief. Also, he had a great scene with the flamethrower

3

u/icantthinknow 2d ago

that's actually an interesting take because personally I thought argyle was the only useful character in the Cali gang plot-wise (excluding El). He provided the ride, he was the one who found the tire tracks towards Nina, and he provided the salt bath. The others were useful in figuring out what/where Nina is, but then again most of that was done by Suzie. after that there were mostly just vibing in the van? Like it was mostly mike worrying about El, will worrying about Mike and Jonathan worrying about will. that's just my thoughts though!

9

u/mutterbutter76 2d ago

This isn’t really about season 4 vol 2 but the whole series so just be aware for spoilers

I noticed how each season one boy from the original dnd party is kinda left the party Season 1:Will is in the upside down

Season 2:Mike because he is with Will but that story is more focused on Will

Season 3:Dustin is with the scoop troop and Lucas,Mike and Will are finding out about Mrs.Driscoll and the flayed

Season 4:Lucas because he goes with Jason and the basketball team(still is in it for most but was separated for the first 3 or so episodes)

I just think it’s a neat little Easter egg that I noticed but I just wanted to share it

2

u/Cannasseur___ 1d ago

I thought the fact that Dustin is separated from the party at the end was symbolic, perhaps a hint at who the “outcast” will be in the next season? Or perhaps they will all be united if it’s the final season?

I don’t know how I am going to stand waiting for next season, I feel empty right now lol

1

u/mutterbutter76 1d ago

Lol but I get what you mean I just hope they all stand together like if they go in teams to fight whatever the monster is I hope the original party is a squad because they will be around 15/16 or i if the Eddie/Kas theory is correct I really want Dustin to remind him of the times they had together then that leads to Kas betraying Vecna

12

u/singlepieceofcheddar Bada Bada Boom 2d ago

Likes:

- Vecna serves as a great antagonist that ties both aspects of the supernatural in the show together. He's genuinely terrifying and more interesting than the Mind Flayer in my opinion. Which is good considering he basically is the mind flayers puppeteer.

- Max and Lucas were genuinely great, with Max being the best she's been in the show until this point, I wonder what her fate will be next season? Mike and Will's dynamic was also pretty good as the season progressed and they started becoming closer as friends (even though Will is totally in the middle of a gay crisis ;w;)

- In terms of new characters this season I really liked Argyle and Eddie. Despite his threatening appearance at first, Eddie genuinely is a nice guy who cares, we see this with Chrissy and Dustin and their dynamics are gold. Argyle is just good comedic relief who can pull through when the plot demands it my brochachos.

- The Hawkins plotline is undoubtedly the best one due to it's creep factor, mystery solving, and satisfying final battle against Vecna.

Dislikes and the subplots:

- The time freeze in the Upside Down is kind of confusing to me and I still don't get it, if everything is stuck in place then why does Erica's lamp able to be interacted with in the UD? This also begs the question as to how Will saw what Joyce wrote on the walls in season 1 which is kind of infuriating, though I am willing to overlook if there is a good enough explanation for this.

- The other subplots aren't nearly as good or interesting as the main plot, El and Hopper are the best of the 3 but they both have there dull moments and in the case of Russia it drags on for way too long.

- The Pizza Stoner gang basically have nothing to do at all besides drive around and give pep talks to each other, there are some good scenes as I've mentioned previously with Mike and Will, but Johnathan and Argyle also have their moments, with John finally stepping up as the big brother that he is and finally asking about how Will is feeling in the finale plus his insecurities with Nancy and their long distance relationship was pretty good, Susie also shows up and it's pretty funny to see the chaos that is her family life. But most of the shots with these guys could have been cut with a few bonding moments and plot relevant scenes here and there and the pacing would have been much better off for it.

Favourite characters are Vecna, Max, El, Lucas, Steve, Eddie, Hopper, Murray, Argyle.

Wants for Season 5?

- Will gets something to do besides cry all the time, he's one of my overall favourites and I want to see him grow and develop, and most importantly, to fight Vecna. Also I kind of hope they expand upon his connection to the UD as well. I know some people might want him to find a male SO but honestly him just coming out to his closest friends and family would be enough for me personally.

- Dustin and Lucas both got some baggage they need to work through after this season

- That red dragon better be teasing an upside down creature we see, Nancy already mentioned a vision of a humongous creature from Vecna, so I imagine we'll see it and taking it down will be a big part of the series finale.

- Mike better step up as the leader of the party, if he's the heart he's gotta show us.

- Nancy Wheeler's entire weapons arsenal vs Vecna rematch

- Vickie and Robin get together at last!

- Jonathan interacts more with Will and Joyce, half the time it feels like he's not a member of the Byers family or as though him and Will weren't close bro's at one point, more wholesome interactions between these during low moments of the story should happen.

4

u/Xiaolin2 2d ago

Yeah the time freeze has some plot holes, when Billy goes to the UD in "his mind" in S3, like Will did in S2 (I still don't know how that works, was it Vecna?) his car is behind him, but if time is freezed up it wouldn't make sense.

About the lights, Will could have seen a lot of light particles in the wall and somehow figured out that it was the alphabet and memorized each letter position to communicate.

3

u/bludwolf77 1d ago

My take is that while the Upside Down was made into a replica of Hawkins by Vecna (we see this because when he arrived there it wasn't so) he didn't really keep most of it "updated"

3

u/singlepieceofcheddar Bada Bada Boom 2d ago

I suppose that could work as an explanation

-1

u/No-Strawberry7 2d ago

This was possibly the worst season out of 4. The Russian plot was dragged too much. Max survival was idiotic. liked the plot of Vecna and his origin though.

2

u/wet_tuna 20h ago

Fully disagree that this is the worst season (maybe that's just recency bias though), but fully agree about Max. Either kill her or don't (I vote for don't kill her), but having her "die" and then come back but in a coma is stupid. It just feels like they aren't sure if Sadie can/will come back for season 5 so they're leaving themselves outs.

16

u/Themilfdestroyer 3d ago

Anyone catch that Jonathan and Steve have the same vision of the future except for Jonathan its a nightmare and for Steve its a fantasy

10

u/manderbruin 3d ago

Does anyone else think Hopper was the sexiest damn one of them all this season?! 😍🔥

4

u/Loveabitofsnow 3d ago

Enjoyed it all, with many of similar thoughts to many here regarding Eddie, etc.

Apologies if this has been posted already , but what bothers me a little is Hawkins has got like a mega 'hell' gate in the middle of it, and there's going to be a time jump?

You just wonder what S5 is going to be? We start smack bang into a war with upside down where humanity is losing? Or are Vecna, Mindflayer, demo-critters just going chill out for 2 years and be like 'Welp, better put the old feet up before going over there kick some ass!'
Or all the characters just chill for 2 years even though there's a massive F-off gate in Hawkins. I know they've already said it jumps back in to point where it's full on action from the get go, so you hope they're taking all this into account?

I think the Duffers talked about an earlier season where they felt they boxed themselves in on an earlier season , but I think they've done that a bit with the end of season 4. I guess I'm just wondering where it goes without feeling a bit contrived (i.e. everyone decides chill for the time jump.)

4

u/KweenFlaxi 3d ago

To answer, what they are going to do, is start off season 5 exactly where it is now, in the field with the gates open (the duffer brothers kind of said this in an interview by Netflix the after show interview, at least that was my interpretation) and that is why there is so many things left unsaid in this season because it is going to be continued from that point exactly. This is also why there are so many imagines online from scenes that we haven’t seen, that some ppl are calling “deleted scenes” when they are actually not. An example is the photo Noah posted to Instagram of his wearing a harness. They filmed some of next season already. Thennnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn probably after the first episode or maybe two, there will be a time jump since the actors will be older by that point.

Anyways, this is just what makes the most sense based off the info we have. That and things the different brothers have actually said.

5

u/No-Connection-2736 3d ago edited 3d ago

Is the time jump going to be that long? I was sort of under the impression that it was going to be maybe a few months at most, because a year or more just wouldn't make sense, would it?I mean, Vecna's got to recover, and we need to feel the absence of Max, but having a year or even more would seriously not make sense. Like you said, the villains being like, "We should probably take a break to let the heroes relax for a bit, they've deserved it" and then starting a new Minecraft world would be pretty bad.

I hope the time skip isn't that long. What would they even be doing during that time??

3

u/Loveabitofsnow 3d ago

You're right that I don't know. I guess I was feeling it was going to be a while because they've said they've need it to sort out the real life age jumps? While the literal armies of the upside down just sit around twiddling their proverbial thumbs -or- if they can't do anything because Vecna needs heal/demo-critters need re-creating because maybe they're all dead? like why the worlds military isn't exploring the upside down massively?

I guess I'm just worried it'll be too big a jump and we end up with some super hokey reason for why nothing has changed much in a too large of a period.

Edit: Oh yeah, and Max also, her body would atrophy to the point she'd barely be able move EVEN if she got her mind/soul/etc. back. Luckily I'm not the Duffers as I'm not sure how they even fix this with too long a jump.

2

u/No-Connection-2736 3d ago

You're right, actually, the real life time jumps. Everybody's getting old now, and they still need to look 15 or so in the show. I think the party are all going to be 17-21 when they start filming, right?

4

u/Loveabitofsnow 3d ago

Yeah, they're all 19-20 now mostly, maybe 20-21 filming?
They're probably going need be what.. 16...17/18 ish?
Yeah, just worry about the jump. :/

3

u/partanimal 4d ago

One more thing I want to see in season 5: quick (early season) death of a main, or main-adjacent, character. The whole rest of the season you'll never know who is safe.

3

u/sigmastorm77 2d ago

Will or Jonathan or both. They long outlived their relevance to the plot. But then Joyce would be there.

2

u/Tsukikishi 2d ago

They are trying to make Will relevant with his “connection” to Henry. But if they gotta kill someone quick, hope they take JarJar Argyle along with them. Loved everything but him and some of the poorly written emotional exposition in the Russian cells.

4

u/average_redditor_ngl MOST. METAL. EVER!! 4d ago

So does vecna control the mind flayer or does the mind flayer control vecna?

As we see when One enters the upside down using his powers he shapes the randomly flying particles into the mind flayer so does the use the mind flayer to control the upside down like let's create an analogy where vecna is the computer and he uses the wires(mind flayer) to control / display stuff on other connected monitors(demogorgons and other monsters)

Or maybe One was just reaching out towards the flying particles and the mind flayer was taking its form in front of vecna and it's actually controlling vecna the way it controls the demogorgons

3

u/Tabnet 3d ago

Yeah I'm curious too on this

9

u/partanimal 4d ago

I loved the interactions between the characters, and I enjoyed seeing them in different configurations and different scenarios (long distance relationships, high school, etc)

Didn't like: there's very little I didn't like here

Favorite character: team dusty bun so the way, especially now that I'm rewatching S1. That is one good dude right there, and the actor is fantastic.

Shout-outs also to: Eddy, Chrissy, Murray, and Enzo. And Yuri was an a-hole, but a great character.

Season 5: I want the dead to find some closure, through a return or something. Not just Eddy and Chrissy (but I do want them to find each other, even if only in the Upside-down).

I want to see the kids of the group playing D&D together.

I want to see Nancy successful, maybe single or with someone we haven't met.

I want to see Will come out to Jonathan and Joyce and Hop (new stepdad) separately and get all the love and support in the world.

If Mr Clark and the school counselor got together I wouldn't be mad.

4

u/Doctective 4d ago

Why were there no Demogorgons or Demodogs in the Hawkins upside down?

2

u/Loveabitofsnow 3d ago

Again I don't really know so I'm speculating, everything 'it's' done required a something from 'our' world. So far what we've seen is the death of loads of demodogs (season 2), the death of a mega-fleshy thing that used loads of bodies and Billy (Season 3) and the the death of a load of demo-bats, and then a demo-gorgon by sword, and demo-dogs by fire.
Like Dart was implied to be coughed up by Will, I don't know where the rest of them came from? How many came out of Barb??

4

u/lrkodaker1 4d ago

Like: Speaking for the entire season, I loved how the season took a darker direction compared to the happier approach of Season 3. I might be exaggerating here, but Vecna might be one of those "perfect villains" that we see on the screen.

For Season 4 Vol 2. specifically, I liked how many of the characters grew since Vol 1. They really did a good job in humanizing these characters despite the "not-so-human" conflict.

Didn't like: I think the California group was a bit dull compared to the Hawkins group. I don't know tho, it might be a subjective thing.

Favorite character(s): Hopper, Eddie, Steve, Argyle, and Lucas. I don't really have a specific character, since they all mean differently to me. But for the mean time, I'll go with Argyle since I loved his eccentric nature.

What do you want from Season 5: Well, I want to see good character development especially from the kids gang. Good humor too, and more heart-wrenching scenes. And most of all, a bittersweet ending that isn't a cliffhanger.

8

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

Ahhh once again we are introduced to a character that we love, just for them to die in the last episode. Starting to think these screen writers are fans of Game of Thrones or something with the kills they're racking up.

3

u/abacus_porkrind 3d ago

At least they didn't kill their gay. I was really worried about Robin there when she had her "bad feeling about this" talk with Steve. There was a ton of stuff like that toward the end, actually. Stuff people said and I'd think, "Oh crap, I hope this isn't foreshadowing. X is totally gonna die aren't they?" Literally a thrill ride.

I'm just hoping Dr. Owens is 2 and 0 for narrow escapes after being left alone, trapped with bad guys.

3

u/baguettecrust 3d ago

Agreeing with you about Robin and Owens, but I'm also convinced that Robin is not the only token gay on the show 👀

4

u/abacus_porkrind 3d ago edited 3d ago

It will be utterly bizarre if they don't confirm Will is gay in season five. I think it's pretty clear his feelings for Mike for go past friendship taking a backseat to growing up. He's coming to terms with the fact that he won't/can't be what El is for Mike and that was some really moving stuff.

I only felt the "kill your gays" thing applied more to Robin just because she's the only confirmed gay character so far. And I didn't feel like Will was in as much danger overall this season.

If there are two gays can they still be considered "token"?

2

u/tegeusCromis 2d ago

What further confirmation is needed?

2

u/abacus_porkrind 2d ago

I think there's a badge or a decoder ring or something.

You're right though. Depending on what more they add, it could get too heavy handed There's no need to have him shout "I'm gay!" or anything. I think the scenes we got were unambiguous, natural, and very moving.

2

u/baguettecrust 3d ago

Good point. I'd also have to say that I don't think they'd kill off the original 4 friends (Mike, Will, Lucas, Dustin). It's just super risky to kill an og off.

5

u/CasualFan25 4d ago

So how did the Russians get the demogorgon and the mind flayer? Also holy fuck is the US government useless, why are they not even at Hawkins after it’s been split open?

3

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

I mean they are? There's several soldiers helping with the "earthquake" relief and helicopters that at military operated. As far as Sullivan and Owens, they could be involved in the media cover up.

2

u/CasualFan25 4d ago

Hmm I saw the helicopters but I was expecting there to be more and them like quarantining the town considering the giant cracks in the town. I guess we’ll see them more in season 5

2

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

Too many though and it's a giveaway that something more than an earthquake happened. I'm sure they're still assembling after the L they took in Nevada.

9

u/casio_peia 4d ago

Can anyone explain what happened to the gate from Fred? If he died on a road, and was presumably found, wouldn't that be an easier portal than Chrissy's? The whole gate thing is confusing tbh. They all levitated, but one is on a ceiling, one at the bottom of a lake, and two are... where? I'm rewatching right now, and this just occurred to me

1

u/CapableSuggestion 2d ago

Where they died. Barbara in the pool, Fred on the road, max at the murder house and Crissy at the trailer.

1

u/casio_peia 2d ago

Crissy died on the ceiling. Her gate is on the ceiling. Max died in the air at the Creel house, and hers is... on the floor. Patrick was in the air, so it seems like it should be on the water... but it's at the bottom of the lake. Let's say that's because that's the nearest solid surface, and that's the standard. Fred is in the middle of the road, and what? Everyone driving in the road went into the upside down and no one realized there was a portal to hell swallowing people? I'm confused how no one noticed or thought of a gate that is so in the open

1

u/Tsukikishi 2d ago

Yeah, also… what if they drive the camper? What if they tore off the roof? What if they turned the camper upside-down on to of the road gate….?

3

u/prokeyfish 2d ago

Shortest route to the guitar maybe? Good point though.

3

u/average_redditor_ngl MOST. METAL. EVER!! 4d ago

i don't know why they didn't go to the gate opened when fred died maybe it just didn't come into Dustin or anybody's mind as for the 4th gate it was opened right where max was "killed" right before all the gates started merging

1

u/casio_peia 4d ago

Oh. Right. Not sure how i forgot about Max's gate lol

3

u/Interesting-Coast-30 4d ago

I can’t but I’m curious what other ppl answer!! Have a good night. I do know he got killed on the same road right near the accident that he was behind the wheel and killed someone else and maybe ran away?

2

u/casio_peia 4d ago

Yeah, his hallucination with the police officer says that he was in a crash that killed the other driver, and that he ran home instead of calling the police. He also has a scar on his right cheek from this, which bleeds heavier and heavier, at least through this scene. I should rewatch his other scenes after, in the ones, to see if it gets worse

-5

u/Dismal_Positive_3043 4d ago

I'm gonna say it: If Nancy hasn't had any success as a writer after the last three seasons, she should be looking at a different career. She must be a terrible writer.

3

u/sullensquirrel 3d ago

Most writers never make it “big” in the way that you’d think. They never make much money. And they write for more than fame or money. Plus Nancy has had to fight for Hawkins. Even if her character has written 15 novels they’re not going to show that because it’s not part of the Stranger Things story.

6

u/RunTurtleRun115 3d ago

Oops! Not valid!

It can take YEARS if not decades to find success as a writer. Very talented writers often struggle to find success. It’s an extremely competitive field and highly subjective.

A high school senior who has spent three whole years writing for their school paper isn’t going to be instantly successful. Not to mention the glass ceiling was alive and well in the 80’s (still is).

-1

u/Dismal_Positive_3043 3d ago

Yeah but no writer has experienced what she has. Her autobiography would be insane. The fact that nobody from Hawkins has tried to sell their story to a publisher is a bit of a plot hole in itself.

5

u/sullensquirrel 3d ago

My fellow writer heart is with you on this. It’s really funny that someone could think three years of writing as a teenager makes someone a bestseller, even on tv.

0

u/Dismal_Positive_3043 3d ago

I mean, someone who has been to a parallel dimension and fought the devil should at least try to sell their story to a publisher.

1

u/sullensquirrel 2d ago

I bet she will.

3

u/RunTurtleRun115 3d ago

I have friends from college (mid 90’s) who were/are aspiring writers. Very talented!

They all work regular jobs. They have had varying degrees of success - as in, pieces published in literary journals - but none have made it big.

3

u/sullensquirrel 2d ago

Same. Artist life.

6

u/iqjump123 4d ago

Question about the master of puppets scene, when Max is facing Billy breaking through the wall- is this an actual scene or some memory? For some reason I cannot recollect seeing this happen in the past, but it could be that I forgot.

11

u/ChefVlad 4d ago

Yea its from season 3, they trapped Billy in the sauna to see if he really was controlled by the mind flayer

2

u/iqjump123 4d ago

oh wow it was just one season previous? haha Thanks for the info.

2

u/thisisntnoah 2d ago

To be fair, if you watched it when it came out it was a few years ago!

1

u/Terrible-Assist4487 4d ago

Like: Still stayed fun and lighthearted. I was a bit surprised they managed to hold onto this as much as they did without veering into teen drama(though, they did*)

Didn't like: Diologue was poor at times. A lot of the kinda monologues(like max, or will), didnt come off well personally and that awful "11, we can get your power back" at the diner was cringe.

They also maybe shoulda culled another main character , I think it's gotten bloated but who exactly idk...(not eddie)

Fave char:Eddie...maybe dustybun

From season 5 I'd like: Nancy to eat a godamn sandwich...she looked unwell...

I want to say less teen drama crap, but they can't stay kids forever...idk, play to their strengths a bit more? The younger group aren't the best actors imo, but the older ones are soooo much better in that capacity.

21

u/mindfulmamathreads 5d ago

late. finished today. just super mad they let eddie die as the town cult leading murderer. mad that the residents in hawkins just can’t seem to find a connection between all of the weird shit that’s been happening there for years. don’t get me wrong, i’m disgustingly hooked and just read every single comment here and can’t stop googling things.

5

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

I agree that it's so frustrating to see Eddie die as a killer, but they wouldn't reveal the truth about other dimensions. Murray says it best, people can't handle the truth and that stuff always needs to be watered down (ex. Earthquake). In this time period it was a very real panic that satanic cults were killing people, so why not just stick to that as it's easier to explain than a whole different dimension bleeding into ours. People would rather take the explanation handed to them and live their lives rather than think something is truly wrong. Personally, I think the whole panic and mob mentality that Jason drummed up is a commentary on how just one person with a platform and convincing enough voice can convince a scared group of people into doing insane things (killing a bunch of high schoolers in this case).

1

u/mindfulmamathreads 3d ago

you’re 100% right. thanks for this. i guess this helps with the loss of eddie a bit.

5

u/abacus_porkrind 3d ago edited 3d ago

In this time period it was a very real panic that satanic cults were killing people, so why not just stick to that as it's easier to explain . . .

This sounds so surreal but it's perfectly true. I thought it was earlier in the decade but it was cool they tied it in as a plot point. Very logical social connection.

Anybody else feel like they have a personal connection to this? I'm about 6 years younger than the main kid characters and satanic panic (along with the AIDS epidemic) absolutely fueled my wildly overprotective parents' paranoia. Even Mike's dad seemed to have more of a clue than a lot of people when he switched off the TV in disgust at the end. I still remember how weird my dad's reaction was when I got interested in D&D.

2

u/CapableSuggestion 2d ago

Can confirm. We weren’t even religious and this would have definitely been the obvious answer here. Ozzy biting heads off bats and shit, I had a friend who hung chicken bones outside her window and did spells

0

u/Legitimate-Produce-2 4d ago

He will get his name cleared next season when vecna assaults Hawkins

4

u/wintersfantasy 5d ago

I think this bothered me the most this season as well. Like him being the killer didn’t even make sense.

4

u/partanimal 4d ago

It bothered me emotionally, but logically it made perfect sense.

He was the satanic cult leader (realistic portrayal of small town America in the 80s)

He was present during two of the deaths and lived near another (Fred)

He ran from the cops (I agree with him, but it certainly didn't help his case)

He was "antisocial"

What is the other alternative? How else should Hawkins residents have interpreted everything that happened?

3

u/Aiti_mh I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer 4d ago

I don't think it's so outlandish for small-town America to be paranoid about a 'freak' who seems part of a wider national pattern of Satanism (personally I didn't know about the whole 80s D&D scare but I recently read up about it). It only takes so much panic for mass hysteria to ensue, and people like having someone to blame. It makes them feel safer. Otherwise, it could be anyone that's running around killing people.

2

u/abacus_porkrind 3d ago

If you haven't already come across it, check out Oscar™ winner Tom Hanks' early starring role in the made-for-TV classic "Mazes and Monsters". It's an early artifact of the 24 hour news culture and obvious precursor to Pizza Gate and Q Annon. Though, as you suggest, mass hysteria is far from unprecedented.

2

u/Aiti_mh I piggybacked from a pizza dough freezer 3d ago

Didn't have to mention any Oscar win to get me to watch something with Tom Hanks 😂 thanks for the suggestion anyway

3

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

they couldn’t have at least cleared his name with the town before killing him? just weird to me. now he’s dead and the town still thinks he’s the killer and people continue dying and disappearing as the town is in shambles. just a weird thing to me they could’ve changed.

5

u/wintersfantasy 4d ago

That’s all I’m saying. Nobody could clear his name like did they not take the dead body back so that they could see he clearly didn’t do this. Why did they not say like when Max was hurt he was nowhere near?? It’s just weird nobody tried to clear his name and he died a killer for nothing as well.

2

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

died a killer for NOTHING. this isn’t exactly a murder mystery series. they literally wanted to clear his name so bad.

3

u/sarawatinee 4d ago

exactly and the whole plan was to clear his name…yet they couldn’t even do that..

4

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

that was the entire plan and yet here we are. i guess at least he died knowing he was a hero. idk. still not good enough for me really. they really did him no justice.

2

u/sarawatinee 4d ago

fr tho. they better do him justice in season 5.

4

u/wintersfantasy 4d ago

I see why El was mad because they failed real bad and they lost people real bad. Vecna was right he won. More people die, the gates open, and he died, and he never got to clear his name. I’ll announce sounds kind of in hell. Sounds really really bad.

2

u/sarawatinee 4d ago

yesss, i feel like they didn’t plan it out too well also. there’s so many things that went wrong. and now eddie’s dead and max is in a coma. they put their lives in serious danger and they weren’t even fully prepared.

18

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

The first few frames we see of Henry in the rainbow room and what does he do? He holds his hands together in front and then in later scenes, grips them in the back, purposely hiding his 001 tattoo from the audience. That's solid film-making there. Kudos to the Duffers.

13

u/Vocalous 5d ago

So its confirmed in season 4 that the upside down is frozen in time, but in season 1 Joyce paints letters on the wall and will somehow sees them. In the other side comic it looks like the letters just appear out of thin air for him. Definitely a plot hole, right?

6

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

nancy specifically said when reading her journal that the time froze the DAY will went missing.

1

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

nancy specifically said when reading her journal that the time froze the DAY will went missing.

1

u/mindfulmamathreads 4d ago

nancy specifically said when reading her journal that the time froze the DAY will went missing.

8

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

Upside Down was created the moment El spell blasted 001 through the wall, I think? That's why everything there is from that point in time, Nov 6, 1983.

2

u/Duncan006 4d ago

But that happened before Will got trapped, didn't it? So how did he see the letters that Joyce drew on the wall?

3

u/abacus_porkrind 3d ago

I had this same question about Eddie's guitar. Not for long though. In my mind those kinds of questions evaporate as soon as I see The Most Metal Concert In History and blood filled party balloons popping.

13

u/Downtown_Process_274 5d ago edited 5d ago

The whole Russian prison soviet army idea was boring. Felt like I was watching a different show at times and it was so heavily overbearing on the entire season 4. They could of just made a escape in one episode and be done with it but it went on for the entire series. The rest of the series was good.

But I'd rate season 4 the worst out of the 4 due to it.

3

u/partanimal 4d ago

Had to be drawn out, though, for two reasons:

-so the grownups couldn't help directly - so the grownups could interfere with the hive mind

1

u/Tsukikishi 2d ago

Yes, but so so many other ways to do this.

2

u/dudlord 5d ago

I agree. It felt like cheesy tv action and it wasn't particularly good

1

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

What was that spinny/windy thing in the glass cage at the prison, then?

2

u/CapableSuggestion 2d ago

Mind flayer. It’s what he merges with the Demi dragon things to make big ultra scary sky monster

4

u/ohnoyoudidnt21 5d ago

Agreed, totally should have wrapped it up 3 episodes in. I honestly liked it, but it felt like a completely disconnected from everything else for not a lot of payoff

7

u/Financial-Leading-92 5d ago

The Russian thing was entertaining to me atleast but I felt like they were just a side plot. They barely did anything to help the main plot it was like all separate from the actual plot. Wasted lots of screen time for story development

5

u/slicemans 5d ago

I felt like the russian story was dragged to long.

1

u/sullensquirrel 3d ago

It did feel dragged out but I wonder if the Duffer brothers wanted us to feel as trapped and tortured that this sunless loop of icy hell scape along with Hopper and Joyce. Really experience the hunger, isolation, and endlessness of being in a war camp, essentially.

6

u/pestobased 5d ago

Elevens outfits were distracting at times

11

u/CharlesNR1 5d ago

Jason should have redeemed himself and saved Eddie. It would have been perfect. Jason would have come full circle. Plus you could have done other things with him in the upside down. He could've faced off with Vecna and saved Steve, Robin and Nancy before sacrificing himself instead of just dying confused. It would have been Billy 2.0 except that Jason had a good heart and was only trying to do the right thing. The way the show ended just left me being mad at Jason's ignorance despite it being realistic.

1

u/Thorn_and_Thimble 1d ago

I felt Jason’s character should have been written to be Chrissy’s father. Like if her dad was a beloved respected coach and also as demanding of her as her mom she’d literally have no escape. And it would make Jason’s speeches in front of the school and also in front of the townsfolk more believable, IMO.

9

u/billwolfordwrites 5d ago

I don't disagree that Jason deserved a better ending, but I don't really feel like he needed to redeem himself. Anyone in his situation would be extremely unwell. The fact that he wasn't just lying on the floor weeping, that he stayed determined to find Chrissy's killer, made him just feel like a tragedy more than a bad guy to me.

12

u/Legitimate-Produce-2 5d ago

Was it realistic tho he believed the devil was doing this but when they told him it was basically like the devil from another world which is what the devil is he couldn’t accept that

Also the whole thing if Jason not knowing Lucas was geek is a plot hole imo

1

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

I think Jason believing it was a devil is super realistic. He was so convinced that he knew it was a satanic cult, and he convinced the entire town too just because there were articles written about D&D and it's supposed ties to satanic cults (an actual phenomenon in the US during this time period). He also firmly believed that Chrissy would have come to him for help and clearly she didn't and he refused to believe that too. To put it plainly, this is a team captain with a hero complex. He is so scared that he cannot see reason, and so he rationalized it with what he "knew" about D&D and their so called link to satanic cults. Hence, why he believed it was the devil.

1

u/Legitimate-Produce-2 4d ago

My point was when Lucas explained it to him and he wouldn’t believe him even tho he was basically telling him he was right. He should have jumped at that

3

u/frostyfruitaffair 4d ago

Also the whole thing if Jason not knowing Lucas was geek is a plot hole imo

I agree. I think this would've been more believable if they skipped ahead in time 1-2 years between S3 and S4. If some time had passed, I could see people not knowing Lucas was in Hellfire Club for a few weeks in freshman year. But instead, Lucas was walking around with Mike and Dustin in their Hellfire shirts.

-6

u/Explosive_Toot 5d ago

I don’t think there’s ever been a more annoying character and horrible actor as Erica. It’s literally unbearable.

1

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

This is such a bad take. She's acting out a role that, honestly is stereotypical of a young black female (sassy and bossy). If you're pissed off blame the bad writing 😂

5

u/sarawatinee 4d ago

i didn’t like her much in season 3 but in season 4 i don’t think she’s that bad

1

u/222444555 5d ago

My mum agrees with you, she thinks she’s so annoying but I on the other hand love her 😂

6

u/Independent-Tea2108 5d ago

She was only annoying me before she joined the group. Which means she sold her role (to me) because she was supposed to be the annoying little sister

1

u/Official3Sixty 5d ago

You must love Ruby Rose's performances.

6

u/Notyit 5d ago

So Max is gone despite being in a comma

Eleven will also need to finish her jedi training

I guess the lady doctor will help

16

u/dunkerpup Coffee and Contemplation 6d ago

On rewatch, I really like Argyle!

8

u/partanimal 4d ago

I love that he accepts that his friends are telling him the truth even when it's weird, and that he is so chill with El instead of being either scared of her or idolizing her. He's just like, "hey weird superhero girl, try the schmackin pizza before you go and save the world."

6

u/aestus 5d ago

My dude.

14

u/VictusFrey 6d ago

I was really hoping Eddie would survive, favorite character of the season. He had an RDJ vibe about him, kinda looks like him too.

One thing that didn't sit well with me was Max surviving. I was bawling my eyes out when she died and then they go and hit the undo button. Now I know why people hate "it was all a dream" endings. All that buildup and drama for nothing.

3

u/sullensquirrel 3d ago

Maybe being on both sides of life and death will come into play in season 5. Like maybe she will be able to communicate with One’s prior victims. They definitely did that for a reason.

2

u/StephenHunterUK 5d ago

Her dying that way was horrible though. Would you honestly want it to be the last we see of her?

4

u/VictusFrey 4d ago

I don't mind it. I wouldn't want any of the main characters to be immune to a horrible death.

11

u/mikeysof 5d ago

Despite eleven restarting max's heart I think her conscious has gone. She's technically an empty shell and I'm going to guess that's why vecna could technically count it as a death and open the final portal.

She's probably held mentally hostage elsewhere.

1

u/partanimal 4d ago

I agree with you, but I think it would have counted as a portal anyway since she was dead for one minute.

3

u/sarawatinee 6d ago

wait im confused idk if someone asked or answered this before but, since the gates opened, does that mean the portals are no longer there? so that means no one can go back to the upside down? does that mean eddie is basically stuck in the upside down……? is the upside down merging with hawkins? but like i don’t understand….how can it merge with hawkins if it’s literally upside down? idk this is hurting my brain but like i’m so curious, so can someone maybe provide explanations?

1

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

Eddie is gone. Monsters from the upside down have moved into our world freely through the gates.

1

u/sarawatinee 5d ago

oh but how is eddie gone but not the monsters?

1

u/milky-pro 5d ago

Because he died

1

u/sarawatinee 4d ago

but if he was alive would he be able to get out the upside down?

2

u/kal_skirata 4d ago

The whole gang got out.

Supposedly the whole earthquake was a giant gate opening between the 4 small gates.

We only haven't seen much from the upside down come through yet.

2

u/partanimal 4d ago

Depends on his situation, but yes. Other people have escaped the Upside-down.

In regards to the upside-down mething with Hawkins, personally I think it's more than just the monsters. I think there is going to be overlap, and El is going to have to keep them separate and recommend a lot of power (maybe sacrificing herself) to destroy the upside down once and for all.

1

u/sarawatinee 3d ago

ooo okay. im just confused on how they got out though if the portals were turned into gates

21

u/corndogs88 6d ago

One of the episodes mentions that Vecna absorbs those he kills. He absorbed Eddie's musical talent and is gonna play the hurdy gurdy in S5 you hear it here first folks.

13

u/skeletonshorror 6d ago

Finally got done with 4: huge upgrade over 2 & 3, I’m hooked again and can’t wait for 5. Loved how they tied all four seasons together and can’t wait to see how they pay it all off. 💀🔥

2

u/Murder-princessy 4d ago

I loved it and I cried too so many times!

2

u/Murder-princessy 4d ago

I loved it and I cried too so many times!

8

u/pandulce4life 6d ago

I also just finished today. Cried like a baby lol

3

u/avoidant-tendencies 5d ago

I cried multiple times in the final episode lol.

2

u/skeletonshorror 6d ago

Same - seeing Hawkins in flames had me trembling!

3

u/Airicearth 6d ago

Unpopular opinion; I like the show Stranger Thongs, it is a good show and I like watching it.

5

u/Beautiful_Drive_2885 5d ago

there's a lot wrong with this comment

1

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

Can you wring it out?

1

u/Beautiful_Drive_2885 5d ago

Liking Stranger Things isn't exactly an unpopular opinion within the majority of its viewers, and especially this sub, this person said Stranger Thongs when it's Stranger Things* and this person doesn't really need to clarify that it's a show because I think everyone here knows that since we're on a sub dedicated to it.

9

u/bcastgrrl 6d ago

What's it say about me that weeks after the finale I am still gutted by the loss of Eddie? At first I was angry that the Duffers would create the best character ever just to be killed off, but now I just know we will see him again. I just worry about what he'll look like and I'm sure his wit and hilarity will be gone. I hope not. I also believe the Duffers when they say he's "dead" (very cheeky, Duffer brothers!)

Most of us believe the KAS theory, and a few of us (I'm one of them) believe the Eddie the Head theory. I have a bunch of 1980's metal artwork side by side pix to show as evidence. I'll try to post that later today.

Anyway, the point is- is anyone else still messed up by that ending?

1

u/ClubSoda 5d ago

if you're messed up about the apparent death of a one season character, what are you going to do when the whole show comes to an end? There's only so much Xanax in the world.

3

u/bcastgrrl 4d ago

I am happy they will end it actually. The "kids" will all be able to vote in the next election.

1

u/ClubSoda 4d ago

lol Clinton!

1

u/bcastgrrl 3d ago

oh hahaha! I meant the actors, but that would be hilarious! Then again, Clinton was in the early 90s, so it would be Bush/Dukaksis I think.

1

u/ClubSoda 2d ago

yes, you are correct.

5

u/aestus 5d ago

I just finished the season and am major bummed about Eddie dying. Such a sick solo too dammit.

2

u/baguettecrust 4d ago

Metalllll

4

u/billwolfordwrites 6d ago

Where could I check these theories out? I'm not familiar

11

u/broden89 5d ago

They're on Reddit and will also come up if you Google, but essentially:

1) Kas Theory is based on Dungeons & Dragons lore. In the first episode of season 4 during the D&D campaign, we are introduced to Vecna and one of the kids says he "can't be alive, he was killed by Kas". Kas The Betrayer is the vampire lieutenant of Vecna (a powerful Lich). People think this might foreshadow Eddie being resurrected (by Vecna?) as a vampire (he was bitten to death by Demobats and has a prominent bat tattoo on his arm).

2) Eddie The Head Theory is based on the band Iron Maiden's mascot, known as Eddie or Eddie The Head. He is sort of undead/zombie like. As well as sharing a name, Eddie Munson holds up Iron Maiden's 1983 album Piece of Mind (this album contains a satirical message which can only be heard when you play it backwards - the band did this to mock Americans who accused them of being Satanists, another link to Eddie Munson) when he says "this is music!". The cover shows Eddie The Head in chains in a padded room. Some people think the themes and track listing reflect Eddie Munson's storyline. Another Iron Maiden album, released in 1986, is titled Somewhere In Time and features graffiti that reads "Eddie Lives".

28

u/Silvercrisp 6d ago

What I liked about this season was how it returned to the basics with the characters having to figure out a god damn mystery. I like how they took Max who always felt like she was too sidelined and made her the best character in the show. The ending was also pretty chilling.

What I didn’t like were the Russian subplot and California subplot. These two dragged down the season and ruined the pacing. I also think they’re getting repetitive with introducing new lovable characters just to kill them off for the sake of a body count. I would have liked to see that the climax of Eddie’s character arc was the Master of Puppets montage, with him not running away and strategising.

Eddie was the best character this season. Joe Quinn is fantastic.

What I want for S5 is a more tightly focused narrative with everyone working towards the same goal like in season 1. S2 had the Lost Sister episode and S3 and S4 had too many f*cking Russians. Get rid of the military and please don’t even show us the Russians in S5.

11

u/DumbThrowawayNames 6d ago

Agree about the Russians. Like some suburban mom is really going to successfully fly to Russia and break someone out of a prison camp.

I also didn't understand Hopper's escape plan. At first I thought he was asking the guy to knock out some sort of locking pin from the shackles, but no, apparently the way to slip shackles off of your ankles is to have some guy shatter your bones with a sledgehammer. I'm no expert, but I feel like his feet would have swollen up like balloons. And even if they don't, you really kind of need your feet. You're not going to get very far on a broken ankle even you do get the chains off. But I guess he heals pretty quickly because he didn't even have a slight limp during volume 2.

1

u/Arthesia 3d ago

The other prisoner reshaped the shackles by hitting them, which is why he was able to slip them off. Hopper didn't break his bones, but it did fuck up his skin.

I was really confused too and had to rewatch.

2

u/Resident-Syllabub-74 4d ago

Yeah both of these situations were really hard to buy for me lmao

11

u/WarHead17 6d ago

Am I the only one who was hoping that Steve would decapitate Vecna with his axe ? But I guess Vecna had to live for season 5. Hopefully he gets to do it next season ?