r/PublicFreakout Sep 24 '22 Wholesome 1

Judge (justifiably) freaks out at overzealous prosecutor, dismisses all charges after cop admits to lying on DUI citation. Justified Freakout

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9.6k Upvotes

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2.9k

u/VoroVelius Sep 24 '22

How is that prosecutor not in contempt for literally talking over the judge

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u/sordidcandles Sep 24 '22

Seriously, was expecting him to throw her out over that. Glad he changed his mind on the JOA.

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u/Ieatsushiraw Sep 24 '22

Likely a usually level headed and clam judge and have her a little too much leeway

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u/oldjesus Sep 25 '22

Clam judge

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u/Ieatsushiraw Sep 25 '22

I never said he was human

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u/ImprovisedLeaflet Sep 25 '22

Look will you two just clam down? I don’t want to have to bring some mussel into this

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u/Grimsqueaker69 Sep 25 '22

He is human, he just specialises in clam law

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u/Nulzim Sep 25 '22

A clam judge? Shit, I'm only licensed to practice bird law.

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u/SpermWhale Sep 25 '22

Never knew you could sue a scallop.

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u/Connortsunami Sep 25 '22

To be fair, clam judges are on occasion subject to some pretty shellfish decisions in the courtroom

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u/17934658793495046509 Sep 25 '22

I assume he is aware this case will see future scrutiny, law students, other judges, and wants to keep level headed and not make other calls that would question an "emotional" judgement on his part.

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u/MeMaw_2022 Sep 24 '22

I was waiting on him to grow some balls & tell her to shut the fuck up when he's speaking or she would be held in contempt too! I mean, damn, the disrespect she showed that judge, umhm, she's going to get herself in hot water with another judge if she doesn't watch her mouth & at the very least show some damn RESPECT!!!

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u/Cetun Sep 24 '22

The "Nevermind I'm granting JOA" was exactly that. She thought she could tell the judge what to do and be disrespectful, the judge reminded her that he has discretion and can make her life difficult. JOA granted, better luck next time, maybe you won't interrupt me next time.

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u/os_kaiserwilhelm Sep 24 '22

Isn't that unprofessional though? He originally doesn't grant the JOA, presumably because in his professional legal judgement, the case doesn't call for it, and then after the State Prosecutor argues the case, he overturns himself, granting the JOA seemingly out of personal spite for the prosecutors current conduct.

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u/someotherbitch Sep 24 '22

I thought he wanted to address the 2nd case first to establish the consequences she faced from the officer lying and then ask if the DA would prosecute him. When she declined and said it was a mistake then she admits the officer lied and the evidence & report for the 1st case was not truthful which gave him reason to aquit the woman the charge.

Or maybe he was just pissed at her but it seemed like he had an intention and wanted th DA to dig herself and the officer a hole because he was already pissed af about them lying in his court.

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u/20__character__limit Sep 25 '22

The judge didn't like that she was basically saying the cop admitted to accidentally lying so it's all good, right? How does a cop accidentally lie? Can you imagine the can of worms that would be opened if accidental lying was upheld?

“Oops, my bad, I lied, but it wasn't intentional.” That cop needs to be put in jail, and surrounded by all of the people he has arrested. The fact he lied means every arrest he's ever made needs to be re-examined. There are definitely more arrests he's made that are based on his lies.

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u/ScarMedical Sep 25 '22

Oh my lord “accidentally lying”, wtf! This pos of a prosecutor believed in dealing w someone life/ freedom where the end justified the means.

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u/Unicornmayo Sep 25 '22

Well, and t calls into question all of his other testimonies.

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u/os_kaiserwilhelm Sep 24 '22

Maybe. Honestly its hard for me to make out specifics of what is happening due to the low quality recording. I gathered the gist of it but not necessarily the fine details. The way he grants the motion though seems almost flippant.

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u/someotherbitch Sep 24 '22

Yea I couldn't hear most of the arguing either. I just assumed the end where he acquitted her he was pissed and wanted the DA to stfu and just shouted out his decision rather than going into details and all that.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

They’re allowed to modify their judgments based on new evidence coking to light.

In this case the new evidence was that the prosecutor was fully willing to overlook police misconduct to secure a conviction.

The judge directly asked her if she was willing to prosecute perjury (which would be her goddamned job) and she wouldn’t do so

Judges tend to (or really ought to) take fruit of the poisonous tree violations seriously.

I know this isn’t a solid fit for fruit of the poisonous tree but the concept is very similar

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u/KneecapBuffet Sep 25 '22

It’s so crazy to me. She wasn’t willing to prosecute intentional perjury but had no problem ruining an innocent woman’s life

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u/mmohaje Sep 25 '22

So the first case was a DUI and as she didn't actually do a breath test or blood test, the assessment that she was drunk would have been based on the officer conducting a field sobriety test and the weight placed on his testimony to that effect would be based on substantiating his experience, how many he's done before etc etc (it's very hard to argue that a copy administered a field sobriety test incorrectly). It sounded like on the stand, the officer admits to having incorrectly marked off that she had taken a breath test and was over the limit. But based on what the judge says later (that the officer was tripping all over himself on the stand and he tried everything he could do to arrest her even though there were no probable cause etc etc) it sounds like perhaps he lacked some credibility as far as the judge was concerned. My guess is going to be that he didn't initially grand the JOA because at this point her guilt has been substantiated and this is the sentencing phase. So the defendant is saying to the judge, notwithstanding the fact that I was found guilty (we don't know if this was a plea deal or a bench/jury trial) I want you to overturn it because of x y and z (which I couldn't hear) but that x y and z has to be relatively compelling for the judge to grant it. It's a rare thing for a judge to do and judges do not like being appealed. So given that she's been found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt at that point he doesn't really have any good reason to put the verdict aside.

Now they get to the suspended license and he sees that she has been charged with this only because the officer had marked the paperwork incorrectly. Had he done it correctly, she would not have lost her license and this charge would not exist. So really the charge should never have been brought and as soon as the prosecutor realized from the cop's testimony what had happened, she should have dropped the charges. The prosecutor though clearly is not of the view and instead of doing the right thing, she seems to double down (hard to tell) and that's where the judge loses it. She's being unjust, he's already thinking the cop has some credibility issues which had made him uncomfortable and I think the penny drops and he goes, nope, things aren't adding up here. At this point he's pissed off and he doesn't really care if he's appealed or not.

I don't think it was out of spite, I think as the events unfolded he realized that in an attempt to follow procedure (i.e. not grant an JOA because there was nothing to warrant it) was going to result in an injustice and he went f-it--appeal me.

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u/dexmonic Sep 25 '22

I think the judge originally didn't pass the JOA because he wanted to be fair and assess the situation a little bit further. But as you said, as the conversation went on and the issue of the mistake was brought into focus the judge got plenty of information to realize what needed to be done to save this women.

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u/PeskyPurple Sep 25 '22

So I actually think the judge didn't grant the poa is more than likely because any arguments about the cop's test(s) and would have been brought out in trial to the jury. It, any inaccuracies in the cops account, would have also been argued to the jury during closings. As such the jury as the judge of the facts must have believed the cops testimony, even if the judge didnt. The judge was kind of doing his duty to preserve the sanctity of the jury trial system.

But the judge now saw another case pending on the docket and was like, well since we now know the well is tainted before we let a jury sip from it let's just close it. The prosecutor, apparently being a fucking dick, says no the states not dropping it and the judge is astounded at her dickishness. Then in an act of true justice the judge decides that the first case shouldn't have been brought to the jury either, but more than likely those facts weren't known until examination.

Anyway that's a great judge and a terrible abuse of power by the state.

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u/Cetun Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Unprofessional? I don't think so. The judge has a lot more power then people realize, and judges typically show in enormous amount of strength and deference when they make decisions. Lawyers and defendants get away with an incredible amount of misconduct and judges typically allow it. Judges are incredibly patient people.

There are usually informal relationships between the judges and lawyers and unspoken rules that they try to follow. You could probably get away with speaking over a judge if a quick correction might be needed or if it's really important, but generally you should never try to talk over a judge, it's very disrespectful and since she's the prosecutor she's going to have to go in front of that judge all the time, so you want to stay on that judge's good side. I think what the judge did was a pretty benign reminder of who is actually in charge during these proceedings. The judge isn't your friend or colleague, he's basically God in a courtroom and if you're going to argue with him and not do anything that he asks but also ask him to do a bunch of things you want, I think you've earned a bad time from him.

I think on balance granting the JOA even after he had denied it, which he can absolutely do sua sponte, is more than fair. It sounds like the prosecutor won a case that they should not have won, so they were already sort of very lucky, and then the judge asked them some things in which the prosecutor was argumentative, uncooperative, and disrespectful. Combined with the fact that it seems like the prosecutor did not care that the police officer lied, I think it served justice to remind the prosecutor that all those things are not acceptable in a courtroom. If you set the precedent that parties can be disrespectful towards you and submit false evidence to you with absolutely no consequences, I don't think that serves justice.

On a side note submitting false evidence to the court is sanctionable. The bar usually never sanctions that type of behavior though. The proper conduct of the prosecutor should have been to first contact the police officer and verify that everything he said on the affidavit was true and correct, and then later on when they found out that things said on the affidavit were not true incorrect they should have voluntarily withdrew the affidavit from evidence. The prosecutor tried to characterize the lie as a "mistake" which doesn't really matter because if you know that evidence you submit contains a material mistake that's relevant to the case you should withdraw it because leaving it in is lying. That behavior is technically sanctionable. It's extremely rare for the bar to sanction a lawyer for doing things like that though, and the lawyers know that. You get all kinds of lies like that on affidavits. Usually though you try to correct it if you're called out on it, but if the judge points out that something you submitted was false and then they ask you to do something because of that, that's a really good hint that you need to immediately do whatever the judge says. If you're a lawyer you're not going to be in a good position when your counter argument relies on "Yea I lied but it was a whoopsy and no big deal, the judge should have ignored it and I don't have to do what he says anyways"

The justice system allows a lot of bullshit here but I don't think the judge granting the JOA after he denied it is the real bullshit here.

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u/RainUpriser Sep 25 '22

I think he handled it in an adult way

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u/burglekutttttt Sep 25 '22

It's crazy that prosecutors appear to care more about "getting the Win" instead of "finding the person responsible for the crime."

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u/Coach_GordonBombay Sep 24 '22

Judge Judy wouldn't be puttin up with dat shit!

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u/ImOnlyHereForTheCoC Sep 24 '22

BUP BUP BUP BUP BUP

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u/chenyu768 Sep 24 '22

Well you see in america we have whats called the rule of law. One set of rules for them one set of rules for us. Also its usually color coded and has a sliding economic scale too.

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u/JmacTheGreat Sep 24 '22

Ah yes, the Quadratic Legislation

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u/chenyu768 Sep 24 '22

Im fucking stealing this.

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u/thatsillyrabbit Sep 25 '22

Always love it when you find a niche joke that makes you spit your drink. This econometrist thanks you.

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u/townofsalemfangay Sep 25 '22

exactly my thoughts. the gall of that prosectuor to not only talk over the judge, but to outright state he couldn't do that. he should of held her in contempt. i'm actually upset he didn't tbh.

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u/mmohaje Sep 25 '22

Yeah I don't know a judge that would stand for that.

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u/grinch1225 Sep 24 '22

Im glad she got that illegal shit undone

But what bothers me is the judge was going to just let the first charge stand

Had the prosecutor shut her mouth, and not been so intensely disrespectful to the judge, Ms Gonzalez might still have a charge, that was done completely illegally

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u/Billy420MaysIt Sep 24 '22

That’s the insane thing. They heard all of the same evidence and trip ups from the officer and the jury still came back with guilty. Like nobody said, “hey that’s weird he didn’t give her any field sobriety test, breathalyzer, or blood test and admitted to that. That’s not right.” Or maybe they did and said, eh guilty anyways.

This will be on her record still even though it was acquitted. It can still be used against her in other traffic stops or for employment. Justice I guess.

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u/nemesis-xt Sep 24 '22

That's because people are being judged by their "peers". Which means any fucking moron off the street who most likely have a hard time figuring out who committed the crime during an episode of Law and Order.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22 edited 23d ago

[deleted]

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u/cive666 Sep 24 '22

I was on a jury for a murder trial. It was at the jury selection stage where they would ask us questions.

One lawyer asked me who I was, my age, education, and line of work.

Then he talked to his person next to him.

One more question he said.

If your wife didn't come home one night would that worry you?

I said, "I'm not married, but if I did have a wife and she didn't come home one night out of the blue, yes that would worry me."

Then he said, "Ok thank you."

Then he asked the judge for a challenge or something, the Judge asked for objections, none were said. Then the judge turned to me and said I was dismissed.

I was like WTF. They don't want someone who cares about a significant other?

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u/bsurfn2day Sep 24 '22

I was in a jury pool for a man who was going through a divorce and his soon to be ex-wife accused him of threatening to kill her. During my questioning the prosecutor asked me what my experiences with law enforcement in the past had been. I stated that I knew for a fact that cops and prosecutors will lie and fabricate evidence to get a conviction because it had happened to a friend of mine. I was immediately dismissed. Which was fine with me as I drove straight to the beach and spent the rest of that day surfing.

Edit: Happy cake day!

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u/BrookeBaranoff Sep 24 '22

I was friends with a former cop. She said when she gets jury duty she just tells them she would always believe the cop because they went through the same vetting and training - and we aren’t friends anymore because she wasn’t being ironic. ACAB

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u/JapTastic Sep 24 '22

I was a jurror on a big case a decade ago. I will never do it again. I'll tell them I believe law enforcement is entirely racist and corrupt and will automatically discredit them. The legal system is a joke.

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u/adacmswtf1 Sep 24 '22

That’s why you should tell them what they want to hear to get on and then nullify.

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u/smokeyphil Sep 25 '22

Unironically this. If you ever get the chance to do it do it be the advocate the system never actually provided.

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u/geardownson Sep 24 '22

Sad thing is that they are actively getting rid of people like you who think critically.

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u/confuciusly Sep 24 '22

It seems like someone's wife was murdered and the husband was on trial for it. They were going to use him not reporting her missing the night she didn't come home as evidence and they didn't want someone that had experience with their wife not coming home on the jury.

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u/themightyredditor Sep 24 '22

Maybe he wanted someone less empathetic? Who knows, It's all arbitrary with jury selection.

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u/someotherbitch Sep 24 '22

IANAL but from my understanding since attorneys were barred from striking a potential juror for being a member of a protected class, attorneys have gotten weirder and weirder with their challenge justifications since they can't say "this black man is biased for this black defendant".

Idk if that is the case with you or if the attorney really was digging for sociopaths to serve on the jury.

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u/nutsotic Sep 25 '22

They really do. I've been called to duty 3 times. Been dismissed by the prosecutor all 3 times. I'm thinking about acting like an idiot if I ever get called again, but worried about getting charged with some kind of fraud

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u/mandingosixsix Sep 24 '22

So the jury is being composed entirely of US police officers now then?

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u/mrssmink Sep 24 '22

I sat on a jury for a DUI case, and one of the other jurors wanted to convict because the defendant admitted to having a drink before getting behind the wheel. She thought anyone who’d even had a drop to drink and drove should be arrested, even though that’s not the law.

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u/FinancialIdiot70 Sep 24 '22

I was on a jury for a personal injury case and the guy who was claiming, said he fell over on some trash at an apartment complex.

There was no evidence of trash, no evidence of neglect from the property owner and I figured it would get laughed out by all of the jury.

They awarded him $250,000 in damages on a 10-2 verdict.

Several of jurors were of the view that injuries = damages, they didn’t want to talk about culpability or what else they property owners could have done.

I ended up having to sit in silence for two days while they debated how much to give him.

People are fucking stupid

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u/Waderriffic Sep 24 '22

Some people just cannot set aside their personal feelings and sense of morals even if they run contrary to the law. They think if it’s unacceptable to them, then that’s it.

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u/rcl2 Sep 24 '22

Being judged by your “peers” is supposed to be a benefit of democracy and why it’s “better”.

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u/choczynski Sep 24 '22

Except for the jury selection process very heavily favors the prosecutor and allows them to weed out people who aren't boot lickers

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u/ChunkyDay Sep 24 '22

Which means any fucking moron off the street who most likely have a hard time figuring out who committed the crime during an episode of Law and Order.

Last Week (Tonight) I would've vehemently disagreed with you. After watching that episode though... jesus christ.

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u/ThatsNotVeryDerek Sep 24 '22

That's the law, in WA at least. All that's required for arrest is the officer's reasonable suspicion that you are under the influence. The tests just give them evidence.

Shoot, you can get a DUI for sleeping it off in your backseat if the keys are in there with you.

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u/SwarmingPlatypi Sep 24 '22

There was a case of a college kid that was pulled over by the cops and they suspected he was high. Performed a field test, like 10 various tests, and the kid passed them all. The cop still arrested him because "It looked like you were drunk when I pulled you over" and on the arrest record, lied about "he was fumbling his words, failed these tests".

A cop can arrest you for any reason they want with no evidence and make you jump through hoops and waste time. When they lie on official documents, it's suppose to be a huge deal that could get them fired or fined but they just claim "I made a mistake" and it's waved away.

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u/Zaronax Sep 24 '22

Thank the police unions for making it stupidly hard to fire officers.

Union are great - don't get me wrong. They help a lot with wrongful termination and for workers' rights.

But Police Unions wield far too much power.

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u/SwarmingPlatypi Sep 25 '22

Yup. Police unions are the only unions I think are legit old school, mobster-type unions. If a cop is caught on camera confessing to doing something illegal, the unions will fight for that officer to avoid punishment and then threaten retaliation.

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u/omghorussaveusall Sep 24 '22

That's all that's ever required in most arrests. Doesn't mean. It leads to guilty verdicts. I would love to see the jury instructions for this case and what they were told equals guilt.

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u/someotherbitch Sep 24 '22

It does create a permanent arrest record, cost thousands of dollars for bail and attorney costs, and literally steals time and emotions away from you which can never be renewed and can destroy lives.

There ought to be punishment for frivolous arrests and a system of quick and easy restitution for victims of state sanctioned violence.

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u/omghorussaveusall Sep 24 '22

Not defending the fact, but it is what it is. SCOTUS has upheld broad arrest powers for police across lots of cases, traffic to criminal. We need lots of reform, but it's not coming any time soon.

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u/starspider Sep 24 '22

Yep, I've known plenty of people who will stash their keys under their car specifically to avoid this.

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u/TheFribergIsALie Sep 25 '22

Reasonable suspicion is for the stop. Probable cause is what's needed for the arrest. But yeah, PC standards are pretty low for DUI arrests in lots of places.

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u/Random_act_of_Random Sep 24 '22

Sometimes it's honestly better to have a judge decide the case, which you can request happen.

Our peers are fucking morons unfortunately.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

Unfortunately then you’re at the judge’s mercy and, if your attorney has been giving them a hard time, they’re not likely to side with you

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u/ABadManComes Sep 24 '22

Juries are sometime more scarier then a bench trial. I watched one case where they kinds peer pressure the lone jurors who don't want to vote guilty because there is reasonable doubt into voting guilty because they're hungry/tired/wanna go home.

Its like those type of morons that end up on jury selection Ned a refresher on 'beyond reasonable doubt'

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u/freshlygroundpepper- Sep 24 '22

That's because the group of winners they chose to be on the jury accepted the bare testimony of the officer, who was no doubt up there straight up lying, without any real evidence of the defendant being drunk.

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u/ermabanned Sep 24 '22

straight up lying

They even call it testilying.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

Juries tend to believe cops even without evidence. They SHOULDNT, but they do

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u/First-Funnies Sep 24 '22

jury believe cop like they good guys and never lie and never make a mistake and never fuck people because they can

we need to get rid of juries. they completely suck. other countries have much better systems.

basically in america juries are there to put blacks in prison and let white off the hook

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u/corn_sugar_isotope Sep 24 '22

One of my questions in jury duty was about any past negative interactions with cops. Fair enough question, maybe. I Answered it honestly and was dismissed, and am probably on the exempt list for any future duty in that court. Just saying you would not see a certain grounded skepticism in a juror - been weeded out.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

Both parties are allowed a limited number of juror vetoes without any qualification whatsoever.

You’re allowed unlimited vetoes with cause (e.g. you’re a rape victim potentially sitting for a rape trial) but for a certain number of jurors you can be dismissed for any or no reason

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u/corn_sugar_isotope Sep 25 '22

I understand, I fully expected to be dismissed, I did not angle for it, was just being truthful.

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u/creepy_doll Sep 24 '22

Judges are people too. And a lot of people have been unjustly locked up by them too.

There’s a lot of really hard problems to solve: there’s the fact that poor people get inadequate representation by public defenders who are doing their best but are overworked and lack resources. There’s the issue of stacking charges to force plea deals. There’s the issue that if we made the previous stacking/plea deal combo not work that we couldn’t keep up with all the damn cases, the courts would be inundated. One common thread is simply that crime and the causes of criminality has to be reduced. Make things not be a crime(such as victimless crimes) and address root causes such as systemic poverty and a penal system that leads to recidivism.

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u/broncosfighton Sep 24 '22

Because if you look at America and the people who are selected to be jurors, you realize they are generally idiots

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u/mecha_flake Sep 24 '22

Wish I could remember where I heard the quote but it's something like "your fate being decided by 12 people too stupid to get out of jury duty"

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

Just like Neil Armstrong thinking about how he was strapped into a rocket built by the lowest bidders

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u/GraniteTaco Sep 24 '22

Welcome to the US justice system.

I'm in a DUI case right now where the cop forged almost the entire police report, and did a sobriety test against regulations (staring in to sun and 45mph winds). I was given a DUI for a single wobble during wind so strong it blew my hat off.

The cop even claimed in the report that I admitted to being impaired, which I never did.

Nobody gives a fuck. The prosecutor to date has STILL not even reviewed the evidence almost 10 months later, despite going through full speed with my charges.

Fuck american police. fuck them to death.

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u/grinch1225 Sep 24 '22

Oh I’m firmly in that camp

I was pulled over for suspected DUI, and was administered a field sobriety test at 230am without my glasses (wouldn’t let me get them out of the console) while wearing a orthopedic knee brace that ran from mid calf to mid thigh. I’d had my leg crushed in a motorcycle accident less than 6 weeks prior and still had a severe limp

Arrested me, impounded my shit, took me to the station and did a breathalyzer where I blew .000, and then he changed the arrest from DUI to reckless driving.

This country is trash and it’s justice system is rigged from the top down.

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u/John_T_Conover Sep 24 '22

And even once it's all thrown out, you don't get any of that back. They don't reimburse you for all the bullshit fees you had to pay, the time they had you locked up, the potential disruption to your life or job you got fired from because they held you jail...they just get to walk away from it and act like you're the one that got lucky.

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u/CuriousCamels Sep 25 '22

I had almost the exact same thing happen to me. Got pulled over(I was speeding), 30 degrees out, wind blowing 30-40 mph, wouldn’t let me grab my jacket, and I had 3 herniated discs in my back. Cop asked if there was anything that’d prevent me from doing the field sobriety test, and obviously I elaborate on these things. Told him I’d gladly take a breathalyzer, but he flat out refused to give me one. I got verbally upset, and the cop put me down as refusing to take the test. Woke up the next day in jail to find out he added an felony evading charge presumably just because I pissed him off. Filed a complaint with the police department because he repeatedly slammed my face into the wall at book in because I told him he doesn’t understand the law. Instead of investigating it, they sent cops to ransack my parents house and threaten them because my license was registered there. Of course all the charges stuck, cops weren’t investigated, and it screwed my life up for a couple years. This was before the general public started to realize how corrupt our police officers are so nobody gave a shit. I feel your pain brother. Hopefully you can beat that charge.

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u/GimmeSweetSweetKarma Sep 25 '22

As someone from Australia, having police assess if someone is under the influence or not in a purely subjective sobriety test is just crazy. There are multiple tools available that will provide an objective result, and there are laws on the books that directly link to those results. Instead a completely subjective, witness based assessment of sobriety.

You can be blow the legal limit, , be completely sober, and have absolutely no evidence that you are impaired in any way, and all it takes is a police officer's subjective assessment that you shouldn't be driving to get you charged.

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u/ImprovisedLeaflet Sep 25 '22

I was told by DUI attorneys to never, ever agree to a sobriety test of any sort, especially if you’ve had a beer or something. It is purely to assist the police to gather evidence against you, and might be headed down a path that’s difficult to undo. You’d be better off heading to the station if you have to.

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u/nomorerope Sep 24 '22

Well I'll take a guess that it is a HORRIBLE LAST RESORT for a judge and for good reason. If you have a habit of that it's not a fair trial it's a dictatorship.

What the hell is this jury though? I have to be missing context. If i'm not holy shit what a bunch of dirt bags on the jury.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

There’s no missing context.

Judgement notwithstanding verdict is only supposed to be used when no reasonable jury could have ignored a profound lack of evidence in an important point to the prosecution’s case.

In this case, the jury ignored the lack of sobriety testing of any sort AND the officer perjuring himself.

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u/WildYams Sep 24 '22

What the hell is this jury though?

I'm guessing the defense attorney did a poor job of getting the cop's testimony and evidence thrown out, and the jury was forced to decide the case as though everything he said and did was correct and admissable.

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u/nomorerope Sep 24 '22

Bah yeah I understand. Maybe the jury got incorrect information to say the least.

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u/thatgeekinit Sep 24 '22

Prosecutors career incentive often make them pretty awful about seeking convictions for charges unsupported by facts.

A family member got pulled over for driving w her parking lights on. She got a ticket but the handwriting was smudged so it was wrongly entered into the computer as a DUI.

$500 in legal fees later, it gets dismissed and the prosecutor asks the judge to proceed w the corrected moving violation charge. The judge was was not having any of that shit and dismissed that too.

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u/Ragina-PhaIange Sep 24 '22

It sounds like the upcoming charge that he didn’t acquit wasn’t before the court at that point but then he used his authority to just go ahead and acquit. Like he was waiting for the case to come up in the future because it hadn’t just yet but he said “nope, not waiting for this, acquitted”

Of course, I could be wrong

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u/goatausername42 Sep 24 '22

My best guess is that he was going to let it stand because judges like to let the jury's verdict stand. Like, she was tried and found guilty by a jury. I am pretty sure that you can go before just a judge initially if you want, but a jury trial is your right and considered more "fair." She choose a jury trial vs a trial by judge, so really, it should stand.

Basically the defense was trying to reverse the opinion of a whole jury w/ one person's opinion (even if they are a judge.) And while you can do that, it's somewhat frowned upon, I beleive. So the judge probably knew it was the right thing to do, but it's a really bold move, and as I said kinda frowned upon to begin with.

Then he gets riled up enough that he doesn't care so much about what the precedent is.

A lot of law is based on precedent, so while I totally get what you are saying, I also understand where this judge really would've wanted to go with the "normal" route of the courts.

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u/Etherius Sep 25 '22

Not to mention a judge’s job is not to pass judgement (in a jury trial) but to act as a referee of sorts. Their job is to preserve the record which can be used on appeal.

It’s VERY likely even if the judge hadn’t granted JoA the verdict would have been overturned on appeal

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u/shijinn Sep 24 '22

How many times must cops lie before their testimonies be dismissed by default?

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u/montroller Sep 24 '22

most courts draw a hard line at 17,328 anymore than that and it starts to make the whole system look bad

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u/cive666 Sep 24 '22

at 17,329 the cop gets a paid 6 month vacation.

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u/PauI_MuadDib Sep 24 '22

They're supposed to go on a Brady List. Problem is there is no universal list. So one prosecutor might list him, but another one doesn't. If the cop switches departments into another county too then the DA office there might not be aware of the other DA office's Brady List.

Some departments also destroy internal affairs records after as little as 6 months. So if the department isn't transparent a DA might not be aware the cop has a history that makes him unreliable.

Frankly, I don't think cops caught committing perjury or tampering with evidence should go on a Brady List. They should be prosecuted and fired. Forget making a list. Prosecute them like anyone else.

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u/bruingrad84 Sep 24 '22

Add a question to the application if you've been put on a Brady list. If they say no and later do something illegal, their qualified immunity protection is gone.

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u/privatelyjeff Sep 24 '22

If I were the judge, I would start telling the defense every time the cop showed up in a case that he lied in the past, and you should thoroughly question him.

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u/memorygardens Sep 24 '22

Perfect example of its just not the cops that are bad. Its the whole fucking system

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u/Unique-Ad-9316 Sep 24 '22

Boy, that prosecutor has like zero respect for the Judge! He should have cited her for contempt of court and let her sit in a jail cell awhile!

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u/wittychef Sep 24 '22

Judge was going to let that first charge stand if she hadn't been so forceful. Judge half assed his job and got called out on it.

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u/lookieLoo253 Sep 24 '22

I watched a judge say that because he knew a cop, he was more trustworthy than three witnesses. It was city court for a moving violation but it was disgusting.

I knew the cop too and he was a climber. He was doing anything to move up the ladder and I have no doubt he would lie to make a quota.

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u/resisting_a_rest Sep 25 '22

It's because they believe society will fall apart if they don't give the cop's testimony more weight, and you know what? He is probably right. Many cases rely on a cop as the only witness.

The problem that has to be solved is to make sure cops are honest, and the way to do that is to hold cops accountable for lying. This prosecutor shows the problem right there, refusing to prosecute the cop for lying on a sworn testimony. He just made a mistake? OK, then how about not prosecuting anyone then, they all just made a mistake...

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u/AnnArchist Sep 24 '22

Sadly half assing the job is a lot more than most judges do

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u/Arodnap10 Sep 24 '22

What the prosecutor doesn't realise is that she just got a reputation with this judge... I would figure that any cases she tries in the future, that comes before this judge, he will question the validity first before continuing ..

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u/Chocolat3City Sep 24 '22

Exactly! All her cases before this judge will start with his doubts about whether this is another case that "never should have been brought."

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u/Fluffyjockburns Sep 24 '22

Justice was not served. Why wasn’t the officer indicted for perjury.?

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u/YourFavoriteSausage Sep 24 '22

And why wasn't the prosecutor slapped with contempt? She openly disrespected the judge and his decisions.

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u/manningthehelm Sep 25 '22

Take a photo of the defendant and compare it to a photo of the prosecutor, there I think you’ll find the answer.

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u/doublejmsu Sep 24 '22 Gold

Record screen during play rather than video taping your YouTube videos off of your TV.

Here’s a link to the actual source: https://youtu.be/HWyOIf3cK1E

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u/mothertrucker2017 Sep 24 '22

Thank you for the link, but it’s not the same feel of looking through a potato camera 🙃 s/

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u/weirdowiththebeardo Sep 24 '22

Audio I can actually hear? I don’t think so. Jk thanks

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u/TheInitialGod Sep 25 '22

I wish I had seen this comment before I watched the video.

The quality was absolute dogshit.

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u/bgb82 Sep 25 '22

You mean recording a phone playing a tik tok of a YouTube video showing a court camera is not the most efficient means of sharing a video? Color me shocked

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u/duffmanhb Sep 24 '22

Thank you. Take some gold.

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u/Wopnick Sep 24 '22

Thanks, bruv.

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u/Negative_Mancey Sep 24 '22

The cops just lost the dashcam footage of my arrest.

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u/this_dust Sep 24 '22

So they dropped charges?

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u/AnnArchist Sep 24 '22

Lol most judges are not like this

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u/Negative_Mancey Sep 24 '22

Nope. Officer didn't even show up. They took a paragraph scribbled on some paperwork and ruined my life.

And before the armchair lawyers chime in. An appeal costs thousands to have your lawyer represent you through another legal proceeding. I couldn't afford it. And a deal was reached. Not a favorable one.....just a deal.

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u/asimplydreadfulerror Sep 25 '22

What was the charge?

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u/John_T_Conover Sep 24 '22

Lol no. Cops are trusted by the court 100% of the time by default. Dash and body cams help nowadays, but whenever they know they fucked up or lie on their reports the footage magically disappears. Because they know whatever they write up will be the final word.

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u/Bluetooth_Sandwich Sep 24 '22

This after putting in a discovery request?

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u/rxspiir Sep 24 '22

So you’re telling me had the prosecutor sat quiet, the woman would’ve been jailed illegally anyways? The system has never worked. My god…

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u/darksideofthemoon131 Sep 25 '22

I'm guessing there was other evidence that showed she may have been intoxicated, which is why the jury found her guilty. Which despite cop lying on form makes it hard to overturn.

Problem was, the cop "filled out form wrong" (lied) and said she was given a breathalyzer when she wasn't. This caused her license to be suspended immediately. Had he not done that she likely could have kept license until trial found her guilty. They can't take license away with no actual proof. It's why they say never take a test when pulled over, it's your word versus theirs. This nullified the second ticket because it was based on a "mistake"(lie) and her license shouldn't have been suspended in the first place.

Either way prosecutor was fucked. If she pursued it, it would find her innocent and possibly overturn DUI charge. If she doesn't pursue it, she admits cop was untrustworthy and that also will likely overturn the other case. A JOA is a lot more than just a piece of paper- he probably thought that (based on other evidence) she was guilty but figured an appeal would use the cop angle and let another jury decide with that information used as evidence as well. To overturn a verdict means he thought that there was no or insufficient evidence. His initial upholding was based on something else, not cop. Prosecutors mouth made him figure the paperwork was worth sticking it to her.

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u/rock4lite Sep 24 '22

A lying cop?! Color me shocked….

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u/thelibrarian_cz Sep 24 '22

How the F do you shit talk THE JUDGE?

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u/ABadManComes Sep 24 '22

That's what I was wondering.... But also she didn't really shit talk him like hard enough to get a contempt of court charge on second thought. She played it well with ardent defense/deflection snd then some passive aggressiveness at the end.

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u/jonathanownbey Sep 25 '22

I mean, just look at the Alex Jones trials. Apparently respect for judges is either a myth or just doesn't exist anymore.

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u/Little-Bear13 Sep 24 '22

How many cases like those go under the radar and people’s lives are/were destroyed as a result!

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u/JALKHRL Sep 24 '22

Check how many people take plea deals, and you will be half close to how many cases are like this one.

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u/PauI_MuadDib Sep 24 '22

Good thing she had a competent lawyer. This could've ended badly for her.

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u/EatTheAndrewPencil Sep 24 '22

So I'm confused. He was going to let the bogus charge stand, but had an issue with her driving with a suspended license charge because the bogus charge caused it? What?

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u/ConscientiousObserv Sep 24 '22

I can only imagine that the suspended license charge came some time after the DUI conviction, and it was only then that it was discovered the cop lied on the ticket. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense that a jury would reach a guilty verdict on the DUI.

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u/likn16 Sep 24 '22

That poor lady.

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u/Chocolat3City Sep 24 '22

Yeah, prosecutors are all cops as far as I'm concerned.

Not a lot of sympathy from me, though I don't know if the person in front of the judge is the same person who decided to bring that second case.

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u/Jace_09 Sep 24 '22

Trying to talk over the judge for 5 minutes?

You're in for a bad time.

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u/GigaGooseGuns Sep 24 '22

That prosecutor really wanted to take that lady down for no reason, she just wanted to win.

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u/First-Funnies Sep 24 '22

we need to push politicians to demilitarize the police and get rid of qualified immunity

fuck the prosecutor and piece of shit cop

thank god for the judge, not all of them like this one

hope she has a good lawyer and sues the department

jury also is a piece of shit for convicting her on lies

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u/Special-Literature16 Sep 24 '22

Untrained unskilled lying ass police called out on his bullshit.

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u/MillenialShan Sep 25 '22

Prosecutor is banging that cop, cop is feeding her cases.

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u/Merigold00 Sep 24 '22

He should have told the prosecutor to stop interrupting him unless she wanted contempt of court! Good job by the judge and the defense lawyer... And now she is gonna sue the crap out of the PD for a false arrest.

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u/tonman101 Sep 24 '22

Any time it is shown an officer lied under oath, any charges should automatically be dropped in the case that he lied about.

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u/Mr-Klaus Sep 25 '22

Why the fuck are cops in America allowed to get away with so much shit? The cop blatantly lied - and we're not talking about an oopsie, the cop sat down and intentionally wrote lies.

You cannot just sit down and "accidentally" write lies on a report, it takes time and mental awareness to write a report. Why are cops allowed to get away with so much shit?

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u/sticksnXnbones Sep 25 '22

So, the D.A knew the cop lied and perjured himself and would still rather go after an innocent person instead of a guilty person.... thisnis why everybody has no faith in our judicial system

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u/OcupiedMuffins Sep 25 '22

So no punishment for the cop? Like this was potentially and probably was, life ruining

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u/United_Show518 Sep 25 '22

The prosecuting attorney would have held in contempt in most courtrooms for her continual argumentative postering. Or even better warned twice, and put in jail for the third violation/strike. Saw it happen once to an assistant county attorney in MN. Lesson learned rather quickly.

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u/bvanbove Sep 25 '22

For a lawyer she is talking out of turn a LOT, and seems to almost be questioning the judge. I’m no lawyer….but I don’t think that’s how you lawyer.

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u/Rabidchild1985 Sep 24 '22

She’ll be harassed for years to come.

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u/Rokey76 Sep 24 '22

I was on a DUI jury and we acquitted because it was a bullshit charge. We didn't give a shit about the letter of the law. The young prosecutor was shocked when we acquitted.

Edit: shit, in the same county at this video, likely the same courthouse (there are two). I wonder if this was the Altamonte Springs PD that cited her for DUI.

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u/Chocolat3City Sep 24 '22

💚♥️🧡🖤

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u/toilet-boa Sep 24 '22

“We know cops don’t lie because they wouldn’t do anything immoral.” Thanks for the laugh of the day.

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u/Browneyedgirl63 Sep 24 '22

Now she needs to sue that AH.

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u/A_Rampaging_Hobo Sep 24 '22

Bitch just wouldn't shut up. She NEEDED to punish this woman.

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u/KamenAkuma Sep 24 '22

Okay, this is weird. She dident get shit for contempt, the cop didn't get investigated or sentenced for purgery and I did not know that a judge can go against the jury and dismiss a case like that which makes the system look to not be working as intended.

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u/Certain_Horse_7919 Sep 24 '22

He let her get away with alot. Ive seen judges command respect with just a finger. Also fuck those people

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u/Thegrizzlybearzombie Sep 24 '22

Very rarely do you get to see a crooked cop get called out by someone they can't/won't shoot.

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u/EverySingleMinute Sep 24 '22

Good for that judge. When did the cop realize he made a mistake? I am guessing after the lady was convicted of DUI

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u/EliteProdigyX Sep 24 '22

And this shit happens every day, or doesn’t because they don’t believe the defendant.

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u/Nerfixion Sep 24 '22

They had to ask the jury to be over turned? Hoe does that work when the evidence literally doesn't exist and the report was false. Who town's dumb.

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u/MikeOlogyLabs Sep 24 '22

Sanford is a historically racist and POS town. Just ask Jackie Robinson and Trayvon Martin. This swine with a badge is no better than the psychopathic racist the town is named after.

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u/G20fortified Sep 24 '22

These mindless parasites piss on our freedom whenever they can.

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u/dkisanxious Sep 24 '22

SUE THAT COP! SUE THAT LAWYER!

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u/Slimy_Butt Sep 25 '22

What a beast of a judge. Need more like him!

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u/[deleted] Sep 25 '22

It’s fucked up that he didn’t find the Prosecutor in criminal contempt and lock her up

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u/Br0paganda Sep 25 '22

Imagine throwing an immature hissy fit because you didn't get to wrongfully convict an innocent person. What an absolute snake this lady is

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u/mynameisalso Sep 25 '22

What a twat that prosecuter is.

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u/Proper_Mulberry_2025 Sep 25 '22

Every single cop in America: THE LAWS ARE FOR THEE, NOT ME.

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u/mingdynasty808 Sep 25 '22

Now THATS a judge. Fair and for the truth. Respect

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u/squidkyd Sep 24 '22

ACAB includes prosecutors and detectives. They’re all part of the same system

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u/FrankPoole3001 Sep 24 '22

It's 2022 and goobers are still uploading potato vids.

Here's the actual video

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u/kittens12345 Sep 24 '22

Love me some court cam. You know shits about to get real when Daddy abrams warns the viewers

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u/BillyWordsworth Sep 24 '22

I went to law school, fun fact, most DAs were in the bottom of their class. Not good lawyers.

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u/SandwhichEfficient Sep 25 '22

Welcome to Florida. Where cops don’t give af and just want to arrest you and let you spend money defending yourself in court. 9/10 judges aren’t like this tho and you’ll get fucked.

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u/Sic__Infit Sep 25 '22

Fucking hick cunt prosecutor

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u/ImPinkSnail Sep 25 '22

It should terrify everyone that a cop saying "she looked drunk" is guilty beyond reasonable doubt for a jury.

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u/McbEatsAirplane Sep 25 '22

I’m shocked the judge didn’t hold her in contempt.

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u/djpromo_vqs Sep 25 '22

A cop straight up lying on a report? Impossible!!!

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u/bogueybear201 Sep 25 '22

I don’t know if I’m misunderstanding something, but did the jury rule to convict despite no breathalyzer nor blood test being done to prove intoxication????

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u/bluehills29 Sep 25 '22

Yes. Because cop claimed he observed signs of intoxication even though he provided false information in his dec.

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u/bogueybear201 Sep 25 '22

Thats insanity. The word of a single person on site does not prove anything “beyond a reasonable doubt”. Good thing that cop overturned their verdict. That jury is a sham.

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u/bluehills29 Sep 25 '22

The word of one witness, if believed by the jury, is legally sufficient for conviction. I’m perfectly happy with the outcome here, as I think the cop lacked credibility. But people should understand just how easy a liar can cause an unjust conviction.

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u/occams_lasercutter Sep 25 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Great that the poor woman was acquitted due to lying cops and prosecutor. But I don't think that's enough. Where are the consequences for their dishonesty and unfounded attacks on a citizen? What about their perjury? What about misconduct?

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u/bullgod777 Sep 24 '22

All her cases as well as the police officer who falsify the arrest should have all their cases overturned. They proved like media they are straight out liars and motivated by arresting and criminalizing innocent people. The police officer and the prosecutor are the true criminals and the real terrorist.

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u/TheSergeantWinter Sep 24 '22

Case dismissed but not before we blasted your full name and picture on tv.

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u/scumbagethos Sep 24 '22

So... Does she still have the DUI on her record, or...? Best part is she'll likely have to file to to get everything expunged, which costs time and money. Lawyers, please feel free to drop some knowledge, I just have a feeling that, per usual, the defendant will have to pay for the mistake of the police officer instead of the system correcting itself.

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u/[deleted] Sep 24 '22

That prosecutor is an absolute Karen. Getting so worked up over a relatively minor case is pretty insane.

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u/Hairy-guy-85 Sep 24 '22

Why isn’t the cunt prosecutor disciplined?

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u/allwhitebuffies Sep 24 '22

WTF he was way too graceful with that broad. The audacity for her to just speak over him squawking like that, amazing. She just opened a whole ass can of worms with him too, what a dummy.

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u/DevonHess Sep 24 '22

This clip is also on YouTube if you want higher quality audio.

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u/ABadManComes Sep 24 '22

This shit is great. Maybe its because I been binging a lot of 'fucked up DA ' cases lately or I am annoyed that corrupt coos can lie all day in reports ...but I love when the justice doesn't have to take detour for appeals and after the fact digging to kick in at the judicial level.

That being said I didn't know judge could.overturn jury verdicts. Interesting. Also man I've said it beofr and I'll day it again. A jury of your peers who happen to be lazy or dumb is scary.

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u/FroznVgtbl Sep 24 '22

thank god someone got justice

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u/Possible-Fee-5052 Sep 24 '22

Been a trial attorney for close to 20 years and never once have I spoken over a judge, much less constantly like she does. I’m shocked at this prosecutor’s disrespectful behavior. That’s not how you speak to a Judge. And on top of that, he was absolutely right.