r/MoscowMurders 23d ago Gold Helpful To The Stars Timeless Beauty All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Heartwarming Wholesome Seal of Approval Helpful (Pro)

Discussion Cut DM some slack, she experienced incredible trauma...

4.5k Upvotes

All I see in the comments for the PCA is "omg, she saw the suspect and didn't call 911?" etc, etc.

No one can even come close to imagining what their response would be in that moment of utter terror and confusion, not to mention she was likely under the influence of alcohol and possibly drugs of some kind. That is a massive swirl of complicated emotions and responses...

Confusion. Fear. Terror. Concern for her roommates, concern for herself. Doubt for what she was hearing and seeing. It is likely anyone would shut down and lock themselves away. Depending on how drunk she is, she could have fallen asleep hiding in her closet or under her bed terrified to make a sound, waiting to be sure he was gone before she called 911.

Additionally, no one knows what she is experiencing NOW and she is likely very traumatized, grieving, and guilty about her very natural response. Wondering how she was spared. I feel like the public coming at her will only make her feel a million times worse.

I wish people would stop pretending like there is a normal response to what she experienced that night.

r/MoscowMurders 22d ago Hugz Ally Bless Up Helpful (Pro) Take My Power Helpful Platinum Take My Energy Narwhal Salute Rocket Like Bless Up (Pro) Gold

Discussion I did the same thing as Dylan

5.7k Upvotes

I’ve very much been a silent reader up until this point, but with the affidavit release and all the discourse surrounding Dylan I needed to share what happened to me while I was in University to hopefully offer some explanation.

In my second year of University I lived above a little corner shop in an unsafe part of the city I went to University in, which wasn’t known for being safe in itself. At the time I lived with three other girls and one of their boyfriends.

One night, when I believed I was home alone, I woke up to a lot of movement coming from one of my flatmates bedrooms. She had been on a night out, so I assumed she had just gotten home and was getting sorted for bed. I then started hearing a lot of panicked talking with no response, so I assumed she was on the phone to her boyfriend arguing. It was an old building and pretty much any movement echoed throughout the entire thing.

Her bedroom was closest to the stairs that led up to our flat, and I then began to hear a lot of banging around coming from our living room, which sounded like things being carelessly dropped. At this point her talking had become more panicked and I realised there must have been someone in the flat. She then called out to whoever was there, telling them she was calling the police. I then heard footsteps going towards her bedroom, her bedroom door open and her scream.

It’s hard to explain without providing photos of the flat but outside my bedroom window was a flat roof, and around two minutes later I heard him leave through the window of the bedroom next to me and saw him through my bedroom window, we made eye contact before he ran away.

Even though I knew he had gone, I physically couldn’t move, as if I was in a state of paralysis. My head was so loud with the sound of my blood rushing around and I stood there for over two hours completely unable to move a single muscle in my body before another one of our flat mates came home.

I grew up in a lot of conflict, and have a lot of trauma as a result. Any sort of adverse experience makes me freeze and seize up entirely. Although I’d heard a scream, the thought of my friend being harmed didn’t occur to me because there was so much going on in my head (she was absolutely fine for clarification).

You don’t know what Dylan has experienced in her life, the state of her mental health before, how she deals with traumatic experiences. This also might be the first traumatic experience she’s ever dealt with in her life. The body goes into survival mode, freezing is a completely valid trauma response. Add in the fact it was 4am and there was a high likelihood she’d been drinking.

It is so easy to sit behind a screen and claim you’d have acted differently to Dylan but until you’re confronted with a situation like this you have absolutely no idea how your body will respond. There is nothing you can say about Dylan that she has not already told herself a million times. The only result of her actions being crucified will be further harm to Dylan. How she’s made it through these past couple months I have absolutely no idea.

Also, this affidavit is the bare bones of what LE has, there’s likely a lot more to her story that isn’t being shared yet. She was cleared within 24 hours, she clearly had good reason not to call. I hope she has the support she deserves.

r/MoscowMurders 20d ago

Discussion Does anyone here believe Bryan Kohberger could be innocent?

743 Upvotes

Let me be very clear: with the information we currently have, I personally think he is guilty.

But I am curious if anyone here believes he is innocent. To clarify, I don't mean people who agree with the United States presumption of innocence until proven guilty. I mean people who specifically lean more towards thinking Bryan Kohberger is not the murderer versus thinking that he is the murderer.

Please refrain from harassing anyone who responds. It would be helpful to hear honest, unfiltered opinions.

r/MoscowMurders 15d ago I'll Drink to That Take My Energy Faith In Humanity Restored Heartwarming Narwhal Salute Tearing Up

Discussion Feeling empathy for Kohberger

870 Upvotes

Im curious…does anyone else find themselves feeling empathy for Bryan Kohberger? Mind you…this does NOT equate a lack of empathy for the families of the victim (definitely feel more empathy for them) or that I don’t believe he’s guilty or deserves what’s coming to him. I just can’t help but wonder what all went wrong for him to end up this way or if he sits in his jail cell with any regrets, wishing he was normal. Isnt it just a lose lose situation for everyone involved? All I see on the Internet is extreme hatred, which I think our justice system and media obviously endorses us to have. The responses to the video of him on tje 12th were all so hostile, yet i saw clips and felt sadness. So I feel weird for having any ounce of empathy and am just curious if anyone else feels this way. Perhaps it is an underlying bias bc he’s conventionally attractive (probably wouldn’t feel this if he looked more like a „criminal“) although i never felt empathy when watching docus about Ted Bundy, who was arguably also attractive. Perhaps bc Kohbergers relationship with his dad ended up being part of all the media attention? I just can’t help feeling sad for the family as a whole: the parents, the sister, and the son who disappointed them all. I just can’t figure it out. Again this doesn’t mean I feel he deserves empathy and i have so much respect for the victims and their families. This man deserves to be locked away, no question about it. I’m just curious.

r/MoscowMurders 22d ago Take My Energy

Discussion So far, what early rumors have been substantiated?

737 Upvotes

I thought it might be interesting to go over the rumors we originally heard early on that have since been substantiated. The first one that comes to my mind is the fact that at least one of the housemates was being stalked by the alleged killer for some time before the murders took place therefore it was not a random attack. This is interesting considering the police originally told the public it was targeted then walked that statement back. I believe they walked it back to throw off BK and give him a false sense of security.

r/MoscowMurders 17d ago

Discussion Nancy Grace set-up this morning. Why is she just doing this now?

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772 Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 12d ago All-Seeing Upvote Take My Energy Gold Platinum Helpful

Discussion There is a difference between offering sympathy and wanting justice for the victims, and then there’s forming parasocial relationships

2.2k Upvotes

Between this sub, others like it, and Tik Tok, I think it’s time to address the one sided relationship here. My FYP is filled with accounts solely dedicated to sharing photos of the four victims, which is becoming disturbing. Some of the photos are clearly very old and you would have to go digging for them.

It is a normal human response to hurt for them and their families, to want Justice to be served, and to fear how easily life changes. However, deep diving into the victims’ profiles, as well as their friends and families, to find pictures to share or giving the victims a nickname is disturbing. Even if the victim did have a specific nickname, you didn’t know them like that and it’s unhealthy to pretend you do. Some people are investing far too much time and emotions into creating this idea of a relationship or friendship.

Some studies interpret parasocial relationships as having levels. Two in particular are intense-personal, where you become so wrapped up into a person’s life you believe they are your friend, and borderline-pathological, which is what we interpret as stalkers in the form of a fan.

Please stop turning these poor kids into your identity. It is one thing to stay up to date about the case, but it is entirely something else to create accounts dedicated for them. Xana, Ethan, Kaylee, and Maddie lost everything, don’t take away the privacy we can still give them. They have enough people analyzing every aspect of their lives

r/MoscowMurders 17d ago Bless Up (Pro) Hugz Tearing Up

Discussion Ethan’s parents social media post 1/11/23

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4.1k Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 13d ago

Discussion Why do people keep saying Kaylee was a target? Kaylee was not currently living there anymore and had not been.

561 Upvotes

Bryan had been stalking the home, about 12 times prior to the tragic event. I'm not sure about when Kaylee officially left, but we know she was only back for that night and the killer probably did not KNOW she was specifically coming back in town that night. I don't believe Kaylee was the target at all... why would he have been stalking the home and what not without her being there anymore. Even if he had just seen her out that night and something happened, it would not explain all the other previous cell ping trackings to that home prior. BK was not there for Kaylee !!!

**^ Adding info *^

Okay guys, I said I KNOW he could have known she was back there THAT night, but ALL the other previous dates of him stalking the home premise PRIOR to that night, Kaylee was moved out and had not been there for weeks, AND she only moved INTO that home in August). Tracking of a Bryan's cell coverage was collected from June. (Edited)

Not sure if anyone here knows the exact date that Kaylee officially had mostly moved out before her last visit back there for that night ? I'm not saying it's because of the family, I just keep seeing Reddit posters saying Kaylee this Kaylee that, and I REALLY don't put her as being part of the equation at all...

**Edit **

It was said by her father on tv special recently that Kaylee was completely moved out weeks earlier !

r/MoscowMurders 26d ago

Discussion Sadly this is just the beginning

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2.5k Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 1d ago Bravo Grande! Got the W

Discussion Lawyer perspective

658 Upvotes

I am an attorney. I see a lot of discourse about the law and procedural issues in this case. I will not delve into that. A lot of people here are absolutely shitting on public defenders and accusations that those who represent high-profile criminal defendants want publicity.

I want to tell a story that a criminal procedure professor told my class when I was in law school:

“A good friend of mine is a former PD who represented a man accused of murder. He lost the case. The man was sentenced to death. Per usual in death sentences, he spent decades appealing the decision, hoping for the sentence to be commuted to life in prison. He made it all the way to the Supreme Court and lost. The man was sentenced to death and was executed. I told my friend it was amazing; he spent so many years dedicated to this case and made it so far, which should count for something, it showed how great of an advocate he was. And my friend told me that 40 years later, he still wakes up in the middle of the night with new or different legal arguments he could’ve made that would’ve maybe saved a man’s life.”

I still tear up thinking about this story (and my theory is actually that this was the professor's story and not his “good friend”). Anywho, I like to pass this story along because I think it gives context to what PDs/criminal defense attorneys face when appointed/taking these types of “high profile” cases and why it might be important (mandatory) to drop other lesser charge cases they might have. The legal profession is not often simplistic or like the movies. Infamous cases do not necessarily attract those seeking “fame,” and “fame” that came from this kind of case, is almost always a PD’s worst nightmare.

r/MoscowMurders 27d ago

Discussion statement from BK’s parents

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2.2k Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 27d ago

Discussion Four strange police reports from Pullman leading up to murders. Remember the video of the girl whose car was broken into and she had footprints on her car seat? One of these reports is of someone who found footprints on her window sill & bed. 😳

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1.2k Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 16d ago

Discussion What happened to his face?

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584 Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 21d ago

Discussion Why do so many people on here act like Bryan allegedly committing 4 murders in 20 minutes is an impossibly small window?

729 Upvotes

Over and over I read people in here who act shocked that 4 murders could take place that quickly. It's wild to me. Unless he spent time cleaning up or engaging in other crimes within the residence, I actually feel that he spent a lot more time in the house than I would have thought he needed. Of course, I would imagine that there are important details we don't know yet, but I think people are overestimating the amount of time needed for something like this.

r/MoscowMurders 21d ago

Discussion Upon leaving the house, it seems like the killer would have realized that he didn't have the sheath with him. I mean I don't think you would just naturally put a non-sheathed knife in your pocket or in your jacket.

489 Upvotes

Upon leaving the house, it seems like the killer would have realized that he didn't have the sheath with him. I mean I don't think you would just naturally put a non-sheathed knife in your pocket or in your jacket. Or maybe he was so arrogant and sure he wasn't getting caught that he walked right out of the house knife in hand. You think he left the sheath deliberately? Do you think he left the sheath on the first victim's bed because he thought he was going to have more time with her but then was interrupted? What do y'all think?

r/MoscowMurders 14d ago

Discussion Dateline episode: Discussion, Reviews, New info

323 Upvotes

What did y'all think? The only new info for me was the Facebook group he was maybe posting in. I still have questions about the investigation timeline, and which genealogy database they used.

r/MoscowMurders 19d ago Silver Helpful Narwhal Salute Take My Power Gold All-Seeing Upvote Heartwarming Tearing Up Helpful (Pro) Baby Snoo

Discussion Thoughts on Reddit as a Moscow Local

2.4k Upvotes

Hello. I am a local to Moscow, and was acquainted with the victims. While I will never know the hurt of their families, and those closest to them, what I can say is this past near two month have been hell. Between getting harassed by reports while trying to leave flowers for my peers, or harassed by people from this subreddit while trying to just discuss the state of affairs with people in my community, there hasn’t seemed to be much of a break. I know not all of you are like this, a lot of you just want to share information or feel you are helping and I have no problem with that at all. I appreciate those of you who stuck up for us to others from this subreddit when they began flooding the Moscow one questioning us and accusing us of “defending killers” when speaking of our friends being speculated about. That is the main thing I wish to discuss here. I cannot express the hell all the speculation has put people from my community. People like “hoodie guy” or “D.M.” who have received accusation after accusation, threats to their families, and threats to themselves. People from Moscow practically begged for it to stop. Even now that a suspect is in hand, these claims will always be associated with them. People will speculate, but to publicize it in a way that revictimizes those who had been through enough is not the way to go about it. I hope this has been a learning experience for people, to be kind, to not jump the gun. I cannot thank those of you who were enough. Please remember this. This case won’t be the last of its kind. If you feel someone may be involved, report it, don’t treat them as guilty without proof. Don’t create more victims. Love to those who approached their curiosity without harm, that is all from me.

r/MoscowMurders 22d ago

Discussion 4:00 AM - 4:20 AM - How fast Bryan was in and out

639 Upvotes

First time poster. Please excuse me if I lack reddit etiquette!

I frequent this board several times a day and haven't seen much talk about how fast he was in and out of the King Road residence.

  • At 4:00 AM - Door Dash delivery

  • At 4:04 AM - Elantra is shown on camera (Suspect still in car attempting to turn around and park which he fails at and has to go down the road to turn around and return. This takes a couple of minutes to do.

  • Assume he's able to do that in 2 minutes. It would now be 4:06 AM when he's getting out of the car.

  • Depending on where he parked, he has a minute or so to walk to the door of the house. Let's say a minute, so now it would be 4:07 AM

  • You would think that it would take another minute or so to kind of scout out the house, peer in the windows, etc. before entering but let's assume he walked right in without any hesitation. I would guess it would now be 4:08 AM.

  • 4:17 AM - Nearby security camera picks up dog barking. I'm guessing the dog had been barking but maybe this security camera was triggered by hearing or seeing the suspect get back in his car.

  • He takes 3 minutes to get in his car, start it and begin driving away.

  • 4:20 AM - Suspect car is seen leaving the neighborhood at a high rate of speed.

That leaves 9 minutes to commit 4 homicides on two different levels of a house with one victim said to have fought back based on defensive wounds.

If you take into account that one of the girls was thought to maybe have been on TikTok at 4:12 AM that leaves even less time.

To me that almost seems impossible not saying it's not true by any means it's just bizarre. It's no wonder why he left the sheath behind and I would expect there to be more evidence because 9 minutes isn't enough time to commit the crime and clean up your tracks.

Anyways just food for thought something that I thought was worthy of a discussion and I hadn't seen it being talked about too much.

r/MoscowMurders 15d ago

Discussion Why did BK turn his phone off when he could have just left it at home instead?

377 Upvotes

Like the title says. You'd think he would have been smart enough.

r/MoscowMurders 11d ago

Discussion Why would BK travel TO a death penalty state to commit quadruple murder?

331 Upvotes

Washington is currently the only state in the pnw US where capitol punishment is illegal. If he had committed the same crime in the state of Washington where he lived, BK wouldn’t be facing the possibility of the death penalty.

Based on what we know, this is probably just another detail he didn’t consider or think applied. But it is something to think about, especially with respect to “murder as motive” and potential victim connections.

ETA: I’m not suggesting the death penalty would or could have stopped him or anyone from committing a crime. just pointing out that he chose to travel out of his own non-death p state of residence to commit the crime in a state where he could face death for it. We do not yet have any confirmed details on why, who, or what was targeted and what the nature of that relationship was or wasn’t, and so we also can’t be sure why he chose to do it where he did. This detail about the death penalty is an interesting coincidence and could be one aspect relevant to targeting that hasn’t been discussed before which is why I mentioned it.

r/MoscowMurders 1d ago

Discussion Moscow murders already on Amazon. How?. No trial yet how is this legal

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260 Upvotes

r/MoscowMurders 22d ago

Discussion What do you think of the, "It's ok, I'm going to help you." detail?

465 Upvotes

This phrase that DM heard a "male voice" say, a indicated in the PCA, is so eerie to me and one of the facts that has really been on my mind since reading it.

If E said it to X, perhaps he said it after only registering that she was injured and not the imminent threat. The PCA doesn't indicate how much time passed between the second time DM opened the door (heard the phrase) and the third time (when she saw the man in black leaving), so there's no way to know if E had been attacked yet. I have seen many people speculate the suspect initially encountered X outside her room and followed her there. Was she injured in the initial meeting, goes to the room, E says he will help her, then the intruder enters, attacks E, then further attacks X? (Obviously, that's speculation.)

However, if the murderer said it, what did he mean by it? I can't wrap my mind around a person being so evil to commit this crime, but saying that to someone as you're killing them just adds to the level of evil. I have wondered, if he said it, is there some cult or religious connection? Was he of the belief that he was somehow "helping" them by killing them?

I realize this is a question that will likely not be answered, but I wondered if anyone else had thoughts or had been stuck on this detail.

r/MoscowMurders 22d ago Heartwarming Table Slap Plus One Gold Take My Energy

Discussion Revelation in PCA: the three-point turn

666 Upvotes

Perhaps I’m looking through a different lens but it strikes me as odd that no one is discussing this element of the case.

The subject is a guy whose car spent more time in traffic stops than it did on the road. A guy who was pulled over in Indiana for following too close. And then pulled over ten minutes later for, literally, the exact same offense … genuinely farcical vehicular misconduct. This is a 28-year old man whose father flew across the country to escort him on his drive home.

This brings us to the subject of the post and cherry on top of this mountain of egregious driving evidence …

The same dude who couldn’t even master zero-point turns (that is, acceleration in a straight line, per IN violations), had the unbridled audacity to attempt a three-point turn. In the dead of night. On a residential street.

To me, this was the most revelatory element of the PCA. That he was confident enough to make this attempt seems comically at odds with his driving ability.

In the most predictable turn of events this millennium, he forfeited the doomed maneuver mid-attempt.

First of all, this unequivocally spells the end of “cerebral criminal” argument. We need to start referring to this individual’s intelligence for what it is: entirely absent.

Secondly, his mere contemplation of executing a three-point turn, at any point in time, in any vehicle—real-world, simulation or imagery—is so grievous that it leads me to question whether he is of sound mind.

Thank you for indulging in my diatribe and may justice be served.

**The vast majority of readers appeared to catch on, but I edited this post to explicate the satire.

r/MoscowMurders 21d ago Take My Energy Narwhal Salute

Discussion Things people are misreading in the PCA/ DM did NOT watch the suspect leave that night

526 Upvotes

I don’t think this has been posted yet, if it has feel free to move along. Im not an attorney, but it’s safe to assume this document is written to be meticulously accurate to the facts and what the witness actually observed. It seems harmful to stray from what is written and infer conclusions or scenarios. These inferences have led to some harmful discourse about DM especially. I continue to read posts and comments that DM saw him leave based on the PCA when it is clearly not written that way. In fact, it reads “the male walked towards the sliding glass door”. I also have seen people refer to a recorded scream and that is also incorrect. If you all can think of any other inaccuracies, it would be helpful to note them. I’ve noticed people trying in the comments and being downvoted and torn to shreds.